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I Have To Ask . . .

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by Buzz9mm, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. Buzz9mm

    Buzz9mm

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    I'm trying to decide what grain bullet to use in my new .40SW. I think I need some insight on ballistics, so correct me if I'm wrong. I've heard a lot of people saying they use 180gr because it penetrates better, but if the bullet penetrates much more than 15" wouldn't it exit unless you shot a 300lb person? If it exits, wouldn't that cause less damage then if it stayed in? I looked up the ballistics on some ammo and kept noticing that the lower the bullet grain, the higher the velocity and energy. If energy is what we want to take down a BG, then why go with a 180gr bullet with 100lb less energy then say, a 155 or 165gr? I would appreciate it if someone could clear this up for me!

    Buzz
     
  2. Buzz9mm

    Buzz9mm

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    Anyone? No one uses a .40 on Glock Talk?
     

  3. Buzz9mm

    Buzz9mm

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    Am I on the do not reply list or something?
     
  4. FLIPPER 348

    FLIPPER 348 Bigfoot enthusiast enthusiast

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    try the caliber forum

    .40s ar not very popular here
     
  5. dosei

    dosei

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    +1...

    Your asking a caliber/ballistics question, the place for those questions is in the caliber corner.
     
  6. 82ndVet

    82ndVet

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    IMO...use 180g quality self defense loads, and forget the rest. I'm no scientist, and will not even play 'Mr. Ballistic Scientist' like so many other tools on this site, trying to die sect things that are way over there head. Caliber wars are the dumbest thing on this site, and that's exactly what will happen when you start a thread in Caliber Corner. Totally pointless IMO. Practice shot placement at the range on silhouette targets, and forget the rest. Go to an outdoor range with different grain loads, take jugs of water, phonebooks, old heavy clothing, ect...and conduct your own ballistic tests. THAT is what I have done in the past, because 'seeing' comforts me quite more than 'hearing' or 'reading'. God forbid, if you ever have an intruder enter your home, just pretend you are at the range....and forget the rest.
     
  7. Buzz9mm

    Buzz9mm

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    I see your guys point, I just want to optimize the performance of what I have. My only question is: does more energy mean more power? I looked at 44mag ballistics and saw that energy was > 1000lbs. To me that shows that more energy means more power. I think I just answered my own question. :supergrin:
     
  8. 2740dmx

    2740dmx

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    I carry a 40 cal (Glock 27) and do not know too much about ballistics, but..

    I have fired everything from 135gr to 180 gr bullets, and I love 180 gr the best, for one simple reason: less recoil!

    the 165gr offerings were all very "snappy" in their felt recoil, but the 180 gr were all much softer in their felt recoil.

    I like the heaviest bullet available for any given caliber!
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  9. sns3guppy

    sns3guppy

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    Probably not, but the world doesn't revolve around you, either. You posted three times in an hour wanting to know why nobody answered your question?

    The bullet weight is inconsequential.

    Shot placement is everything. Unless you're shooting through glass, don't worry about it. The only thing with which you need concern yourself is shot placement. Period.

    You can't be guaranteed expansion, and ballistic gelli doesn't equate to real world performance. The only control you have, and the single most critical issue for terminal effectivness, is shot placement. Shoot an opponent with 165 gn .40 s&w or 180 gn, and the opponent's only concern will be where you hit them or if you hit them...they won't know the difference between the two bullet weights. You won't, either.

    Personally, I usually carry 165 gn .40 in my Sig P239, HK P2000SK, or G27. I prefer 180 gn out of my P229 or Beretta 96. The Kahr P40's don't really care, and neither do I. In the end, so long as the ammunition cycles reliably, and you can hit your target, what more do you need to know?

    The gun rags make a big deal out of "one-shot stops," and all kinds of other meaningless garbage...largely an invention they sell to people who don't know any better.

    Your opponent won't know any better either, and won't care after you accurately place your shot. This should be your only concern. Can you control the weapon? Is it reliable? End of story.

    You might want to revisit Newton's third law of motion, on that one.

    Really? Other than you, says who?

    Have you ever actually killed someone? Your questions indicate otherwise. Forget what's the most powerful, forget a few feet per second velocity, forget what one person or the other perceives as recoil, and focus on shot placement. Period.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2010
  10. NCHornet

    NCHornet

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    I prefer the 165 gr in 40 and 124 in 9mm, but I agree 100% that shot placement is much more of a factor than the grain of bullet used!!
     
  11. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Viva Hate CLM

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    I carry 180 grain Federal HSTs in my USPc.

    I think 180 grains is kind of the factory testing and sighting in weight for manufacturers of .40 S&W pistols (like 158 grains in .38 Specials). Whatever the case may be, it is the weight that my pistol likes best.

    As far as cartridge selection, just do a little reading, try a couple and find the one that you shoot best. Don't get bogged down in penetration and expansion numbers. The HST looks good in the tests I've seen, and my HK likes it, so that's what I carry.
     
  12. lee2

    lee2

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    180gr, more mass = more penetration.:cool:
     
  13. 8-Ball

    8-Ball Old Soul

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    Is that a joke?
     
  14. ipscshooter

    ipscshooter Mostly IDPA now

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    Look here

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

    Read this

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm

    This info came up in Google "wound ballistics"

    As said, it's a never ending argument, that in the end comes down to shot placement.

    The FBI study makes a strong arguement for penetration 1st, then bullet size. .40 is a good choice for that. Pick a load and gun that you can hit with, with an abundance of confidence. 180, 165, 155, 135 they will all work fine. I would avoid gimmick ammo, "Extreme Super Ninja Bullets" and "frangibles" Go with a good "Premium" from Winchester, Federal, Cor-Bon, Remington, etc.
     
  15. keninnavarre

    keninnavarre bulletproof

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    Find a load that shoots to point of aim in your gun, is reliable, and concentrate on getting hits. There is 0 lbs. of energy transferred to a 300 lb. BG...with a miss. And I expect a reply from you in 1 hour or less....
     
  16. lee2

    lee2

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    no it isnt.
     
  17. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne

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    Better to over penetrate than under penetrate.
     
  18. lee2

    lee2

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    +1
    :wavey:
     
  19. sns3guppy

    sns3guppy

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    http://www.gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Chart_C/AMMUNITION+BALLISTICS+FOR+.40+S%26W

    You'll see from the above table which lists some basic statistical information for various commercial loadings that weight is no indication of energy or effectiveness. You'll note, for example, that some 165 grain offerings have more muzzle velocity and energy than some 180 grain offerings, while some 180 gn offerings have more energy than some 165 gn products.

    No, it probably wasn't a joke, but wasn't accurate, either.

    Bullet weight (mass) doesn't ensure penetration, and a heavier bullet will not necessarily penetrate more.

    Velocity doesn't ensure penetration. A faster bullet won't necessarily penetrate more.

    Two identically loaded bullets won't necessarily penetrate the same, either.

    A light bullet at a high velocity may penetrate considerably better than a heavy bullet at a slower velocity, but not necessarily so. Penetration isn't the only issue, and extreme penetration isn't necessary, nor necessarily desirable.

    The spread between the two most commonly available weights, 165 gn and 180 gn in .40 s&w, isn't very significant. Not all loadings are pushed to maximum pressures. In many cases, heavier bullets are slower bullets, but not in every case. Maximum penetration, maximum velocity, and the heaviest bullet are seldom the most important criteria in choosing ammunition. Reliability, repeatability and control are all very important. Chambering is not.

    One may find a lower velocity, lighter bullet desirable, especially one with less powder to burn outside the barrel during night fire, especially powder with a flash suppressant. One may find that less power is desirable for controlability, and one may find that a more powerful loading is necessary in a given weapon to ensure cycling. One may be restricted to certain ammunition because of the feeding characteristics of the particular weapon.

    Heavy bullets do not penetrate more unless they are driven at the same or higher velocity than lighter bullets. Even then, the bullet design, the medium impacted, and other factors ranging from barrel length to loading, have a major impact on the terminal ballistics of the particular round.

    Heavier bullets do not reduce recoil, as someone opined above. To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. At the same velocity, a heavier bullet has greater recoil. At lighter loadings or slower velocities, a heavier bullet may have the same recoil or possibly lighter recoil than a lighter bullet...this isn't a consequence of the weight of the bullet but the loading of the round. Generally speaking, lighter bullets tend to have lower recoil. In the case of the 155 or 165 grain and 180 grain bullets, the difference in recoil is negligible enough to be nearly imperceptible, assuming one measures by the same muzzle energy.

    Given that one can push a heavy bullet fast and a light bullet slow, push them both the same, or even vice versa, then one can't really say a heavy bullet, or a light bullet produces less recoil...unless one has a baseline of velocity and chamber pressure with which to compare.
     
  20. 8-Ball

    8-Ball Old Soul

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    That's what I was thinking.

    More mass does not automatically = more penetration.

    I wasn't trying to be an ***, Lee, I honestly didn't know if you were being serious or if I was missing an inside joke. Sorry if I came off that way.