Home > Firearms Forums > Black Rifle Forum > I hate Palmetto State Armory.

I hate Palmetto State Armory.

  1. i'm gonna get a **** ton of hate for that statement, but its true. I absolutly hate that company. In 2018 i blew $1800 with them. ammo, mags, rds, 3 kits, 2 10.5 inch pistol kits and one 16 inch middy kit.

    i've had to send two of the uppers back immediately. the middy upper had a horribly canted fsb. you couldn't zero with irons it was that bad. one of the 10.5 pistol uppers was so ridiculously out of spec you couldn't close it on a lower. I sent both those uppers back, Psa fixed the cant on one and replaced my brand new 10.5 upper with one containing a used bolt carrier. and the fsb is slightly canted on that one too but atleast i could zero. needless to say i was less than happy. Especially since the middy's barrel is trash. it shoots with ball ammo, 5-6 moa. the 10.5 with the cant shoots 3-4 moa with the same ammo.

    fast forward to last week. I finally said **** this pos and ordereda new barrel, a dissy barrel assembly from windam. chrome lined nato chamber, yeah its 1/9 but i don't care i only shoot 55s and 62s anyway. i'm thinking, yeah i'll just rebarrel this psa upper.

    well let me tell you 2 things...1 i think i know why this thing might be experiencing some accuracy issues and 2 psa can go **** a duck because the god damn barrel nut is torqued to well above 150 ft lbs. how do i know this? because right now its clamped to my reloading bench which weighs atleast 150 lbs and i am lifting the bench up trying to get the nut off. its squeaked twice and moved a couple of milimeters and thats it. i can see the barrel flexing as i attempt to break torque on the nut. un ****ing belivable.

    the 3rd kit was perfect. sights straight and no issues to my knowledge. that kit went to a freind.

    i should have spent more money and bought from a better company. all you guys out there with BCM and DD bagging on the poors with PSA, next time someone says "psa is great" feel free to copy and paste this. i should have bought that $800 6920 i saw two years ago.
     
  2. Yea, the old "buy once cry once" thing, right?

    I can say I've read enough about them that I'm OK buying their small parts and as a reseller, but I don't yet buy into them as a manufacturer. I think they cater to the cost first line of thinking and for me that don't hunt on core components.

    Nor are you the only guy with complaints. It does seem to be a minority, but I wonder how much of their stuff gets shot regularly.

    Anyway, I'm sorry you're feeling screwed over. Good luck getting it dialed in!

    Can you get a heat on it? (heat gun) I wonder if somebody used locktite on it...
     
  3. and i can't get it off. i'm rounding the ****ing nut and my armorers wrench.
     
  4. heat gun? oh i have one right here. i didn't think of that.
     
  5. sheesh sorry to hear. sadly you are not alone in this. My friend similarly had to bring one of his back to the store for issues, I believe he had a .308 AR platform.

    Their daily deals are sometimes pretty good, but aside from that I really only try to go there when needed, such as needing to go to the range and all other avenues are exhausted to shoot.
     
  6. eh **** it. its 4 am i'm going to bed. i soaked it n wd40
     
  7. Kroil oil is your best friend as far as getting things un frozen. A little heat goes a long way too. If you have an electric oven that can heat down to 180 degree is good too.
     
  8. OP, thank you for this thread. I've only bought a Bravo Company (BCM) AR pistol and a Springfield-Armory Saint (before the Victor series but with the full float MLOK handguard).

    Zero problems with the BCM at ~3500 rounds.

    The Saint had to go back for chamber/lede reaming and they also replaced the bolt carrier group (unknown reason why on the bcg). The Saint took ~6 weeks after shipping out and back. In the future, I'd rather spend more than to shoot 4K rounds only to later determine I've got problems with the rifle and not ammo; then shoot 1K more to ensure it's now working 100%.

    I'd rather be buying an AR, shooting it with zero problem, than to be finding issues and having to get things fixed. It is good that I've got more AR experience as to what can go wrong, but I'd rather have the knowledge without personally experiencing it.

    I suppose, for some people, just having an AR (like something from Palmetto State Armory), which may work, just ok, for most of the time, is good enough for them; or maybe they got one which will work 100% for their lifetime (both the person and the gun's life).
     
  9. Locktite? I know Bushmaster used red locktite on barrel nuts.
     
  10. Penetrating oil is not gonna work if its locktite.
     
  11. That is correct sir!
     
  12. Could have sent the problem bag of parts back for them to to deal with but sounds like its to late for that with one of them !
     
  13. The hot wrench will free up that lock-tite.
     
  14. .
     
  15. People seem reluctant to call PSA out for some reason. They more than doubled their ammo prices overnight when the Kung Flu broke out. Folks bashed Cheaper Than Dirt, but not PSA. I do support their mission though.
     
  16. I got a 6.5 Grendel upper from them last fall and it's been flawless. Sorry to hear about your issue.
     
  17. Kernal - you have to let us know what happens with that barrel nut! You really have piqued my interest. I'll be up nights wondering!

    Hope it finally works out for you. Please, let us know the result.

    Stay safe and stay healthy.
     
  18. Electric ir compressed air impact wrench?

    Sometimes the short burst of torque help get stuck things off

    Or don’t bother buy a stripped upper. How much could it cost?

    Bet you can find one for 50 dollars.
     
  19. I've put together several of their kits for myself and friends and I bought their AK. The only issue I ever had was a charging handle horribly out of spec. Looked more like a golf putter rather than a "T".

    I'll say this, I've had more problems with brand new rifles, revolvers and pistols from reputable manufacturers than I've had with PSA. Clearly I'm getting better mileage...

    I think as QC industry wide is complete crap. As a round number ~30% of the firearms I own have been returned to the factory after one range trip.
     


  20. i got it off thanks to the dremel god. i had to make two cuts about 180 degrees apart and that let up the tension. those *******s dry humped this barrel nut on to over 150 ft lbs to get it to align. i have a new barrel showing up today and i ordered some shims and a new delta ring from optics planet. and by my email i got from those guys looks like optics planet will ship today. the upper is salvageable. i only just kissed the threads with the dremel so its good.

    i was gonna rebarrel my 10.5 pistol this summer, i won't. i'll just replace the whole thing.
     
  21. almost said **** it since i have a slick side anderson lying about.
     

  22. Any post damage pictures? I'd like to see a what a dry upper torqued to 150 looks like.
     
  23. it wasn't loc-tited on. i had to use a dremel, a 4 lb sledge, and a chisel. they didn't put any antiseize on the threads at all. they dry humped it to about 150 or more ft lbs to get the nut aligned right instead of spending a dollar on a shim.
     
  24. the threads are in good shape the barrel nut....well thats another story :)

    seriously i know its the interwebs and people post nonsense and there is always skeptism but i had to put one foot on my reloading bench to keep it down while tugging on it. i chewed up the spines on the nut and my wrench doing it. with all my stuff on the bottom of my bench and my press and the bench it self its an easy 150 lbs.
     

  25. With no lube the torque values are meaningless going on or coming off. It's insane a manufacturer would omit something like that and think they could just brute force it on. It probably wouldn't have even needed a shim if it was properly lubed.
     
  26. i'll post a bunch of pics next week. i got a custom lower coming this week for my pistol. i'll be posting pics of that then. right now its 10 am i've slept like 3 hours and i gotta be at work at 5 so, ttyl all.
     
  27. you're prolly right, they probably didn't actually torque it to 150 or more, that was just the torque it was gonna be required to get it off.
     
  28. You would be surprised, how many crappy $1000+ Kimbers, Sigs and FNs I have seen.
     
  29. With companies who started out small who then become popular due to crisis/panic buying, their business model often changes due to their newfound "influence" (read: their balls get bigger) in the industry. And often times as they grow in size and popularity they can't keep up with their customers and begin to care less and less about quality and integrity and more and more about revenue. A good example of this is Home Depot: I once returned a doorknob set because it was missing parts...the staff handed me another of the same from the shelf and took the box that I was returning and placed it back on the same shelf - and that's a problem.

    When Classic Firearms first arrived on the scene their home page contained quotes from the Bible and they seemed like an up and up company to deal with. Then when their popularity began to swell the Bible quotes seemed to disappear and the shady practices began, i.e., they were offering Korean drum mags for the AK rifles for $59 or so, but they wanted $24 to ship one. I've had firearms that weighted 3x as much shipped for less than that. So I contacted their customer service department and asked why their shipping cost was so high for this particular item and their response was simply: "This is what we get to ship them." Well I don't take kindly to being bent over in Macy's window so I found another source for these drums and ordered one for $69 with free shipping, then sent a note to Classic Firearms informing them that I'd gone elswhere thanks to their underhanded cheap to reel me in price then hammer me with some rediculous high $$ shipping scheme.

    PSA was another firearm related company to come along who offered less expensive items when compared to most other suppliers, and alot of gun owners seem to prefer to pay as little as possible for firearm parts, as seen in many many threads here asking questions like "Who's got the least expensive barrel for..." or "I need a cheap lower for my..." or "I'm on a budget and...". I've never quite understood the reason for spending as little as possible on a firearm, especially when considering one for personal defense. PSA has seized the opportunity to appeal to those who don't like to spend money in the same way that folks go to Wal Mart for all their needs...it all begins with neverending ad campaigns featuring low pricing followed by pummeling the customer with 2 emails a day 7 days a week just loaded with "specials". And like dangling a carrot in front of the nose of a donkey, you can steer that donkey just about anywhere, for any reason.

    Don't be the donkey. Spend some time considering why you're being such a cheapass, or maybe start spending your money on something else like a new badminton set, LOL.

    I too was on PSA's email list until I got tired of deleting their daily emails. I recall in the past running through their website looking for AR pistol kits, but they always seemed to offer little to no information whatsoever about the manufacturer or quality of their parts that were included in these kits, plus every time I found one that I thought I'd be remotely interested in, it was "temporarily out of stock". This happened week after week after week after week so I finally got the message that they were more interested in steering people towards getting rid of what they had in their inventory than offering combinations that folks like me actually wanted, so I just gave up on them entirely. I'd ordered from them on ocassion in the past for small parts like AR lower pin/spring/detent kits and I tried my hand at some high capacity ETS Glock mags when they were offering a deal with 10 or so of them and 500 rounds of Winchester 9mm ammo, but since my interest in both the AR15 and Glock has completely waned and the quality of their parts being reported as so-so to great to eh, PSA is nowhere to be found on my favorites list. When the time comes I'd rather spend the money on quality parts of known lineage or pedigree then take unnecessary chances just to save a few dollars. YMMV.
     
  30. What's that old proverb...?

    Caveat Emptor?

    Yeah... that one...

    Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.

    For the record, on the whole, I like PSA and their arming of Americans w/ tools and useful knowledge.

    Ya hires employees... ya takes yer chances...
     
  31. I have 3 PSA uppers - and two PSA lowers -

    I have not had any issues - other than a defective hammer spring -

    I called them - they sent me a new spring and a firing pin - they said replace both - see if it solves your problem.

    Since they now charge sales tax and it seems like nothing I want has free shipping - they are not the great deal they use to be.
     
  32. If it is clamped on the side of the bench, and you are just lifting the corner of it, you not lifting the whole weight of the bench.

    Torque is measured in force applied at a distance (ie, lbs-ft, or N-m) on a rotating object or central pivot, so can't always equate to what the workbench is doing. Then there is dry torque and wet torque. Then there is galling of metals, or thread seal agents, paint, rust,... that affects force needed to remove a fastener, that has nothing to do with the amount of torque applied at install.

    Heat will break most thread agents, unless it is Rockset.
     
  33. I've built several bolt rifles using a Savage receiver. I guess the gorilla Savage used to torque their barrel nut on has moved to psa.

    Glad to hear you salvaged it.

    Enjoy....
     
  34. Do you have the gas tube out? Are you turning (or attempting to) in the right direction? Try a hammer tap on the wrench rather than just pulling.
    OK, Already got it off. Didn't read all that.
     
  35. PSA are a roll of the dice. I am not 100% sold on them. Although for the price point they remain a good deal when holiday sales are offered. Standard pricing NOT so much.
     
  36. That is the problem with the milspec system, torque - then line up the gas tube.......
     
  37. Given your stated experience, it would seem they hate you back! :D
     
  38. Sounds like they galled the receiver extension.
    Ive never been a PSA fan, but a shiOt ton of guys love them here.
    Personally, Ill take quality over quantity.
     
  39. i know right?
     
  40. Sorry man, that kinda thing would grind on me too

    You did a service posting this

    When you give a company multiple tries to get things right, and they don't, I cross them off the list

    Not like this happened a bunch of years ago when they pretty much begged for forgiveness
     
  41. Oh, don't we all. Hell, I think they got all the way down to $720.
     
  42. I’ve seen bad parts/rifles come from nearly every manufacturer.

    Your experience is so unusual, it almost sounds if one person was to blame.


    I’ve assembled dozens of guns from PSA parts, I’ve yet to have to send anything back.
     
  43. It's not a problem, the torque range is quite wide.
     
  44. Sometimes, a 24" pipe wrench with a 2" pipe cheater 3' long is your friend. There was no need to damage your weapon.

    erad
     
  45. This.
     
  46. it often seems as if the only issue PSA rifles have is due to poor assembly. The canted front sight bases are a good example. And this issue arises every year or so. They put out a bad batch then correct the issues......then a year or two later,.....
     
  47. crappy sigs and kimbers? no sir i wouldn't be surprised at all.
     
  48. it was $789. i've been kicking myself for years now over it.
     
  49.  
  50. I'm not arguing that any company can have a lemon

    However ...

    When that happens I do demand that subsequent actions / replacements NOT continue to have issues

    Re read the OP's original post

    It would have taken PSA moments to not send sub par follow up replacements