I hate Palmetto State Armory.

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by kernal_panic, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. GlockFan7

    GlockFan7

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    Yes, I've done that. I bought my pistol as a complete lower, because the sale price including an SBA3 was only $20 more than I would have paid for an SBA3 alone. The complete upper was the part I had to wait on. I didn't have to wait too long and the payoff was worth it.
     
  2. GlockFan7

    GlockFan7

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    I got the pistol upper with the slanted handguard and flash can. I added MBUS front and rear, along with a Romeo 5. The carbine length gas system seems to work just fine.
     

  3. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    Some of you have obviously never tried to take a barrel nut off a Colt before...better get your 3' cheater pipe out!!! LOL Having done a few BCM guns they aren't far behind either...
     
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  4. faawrenchbndr

    faawrenchbndr CLM

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    I had to split the last 6920 barrel nut I removed....it was installed bone dry
     
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  5. TacticalDesire

    TacticalDesire

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    Classic Glock talk. In typical fashion, a thread about legitimate gripes about PSA has turned into a PSA apologist thread with all of the usual cliches.

    "I can't tell a difference"
    "You're paying for a name"
    "Who cares it was only $400".
    "You're doing something wrong"

    Yes, they make stuff that works but you are a damn liar if you say that they don't put out a higher proportion of stuff with QC issues. It is what it is, you're allowed to like PSA and acknowledge they also put out metric tons of garbage as well. Because they do. Do lemons slip out from other manufacturers? Yes. But they do it far less and are typically better at making it right.
     
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  6. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    My experience doesn’t indicate that.

    Much like this thread my experience is most people are happy with their PSA’s and a small but vocal group are unhappy.

    Then there’s a smaller group that is always trying to justify the premium they paid for a roll mark.
     
  7. TacticalDesire

    TacticalDesire

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    Yes, I'm sure you had good experiences and many people have. That's not the point.

    There's a reason PSA and Taurus threads always generate controversy. Reputations are earned.

    Other brands are objectively better, whether it matters enough to justify the increase in cost is up to the user. Most people don't shoot enough or know enough to care.

    If someone has a problem with a BCM, LMT, LWRC, SOLGW etc (which is exceedingly rare but does happen), those threads aren't met with nearly the amount of damage control PSA threads do. Are you just paying for a name? Maybe, but behind that name is much better QC and reputation.

    If your PSA works for you, rock on, but discrediting widespread issues as inconsequential serves no actual purpose other than to make you feel good.

    The "Most people are happy" thing is also BS. If they make 1,000,000 rifles, and 500,001 are great and 499,999 have issues, technically the majority is happy but that doesn't justify pumping out guns that are out of spec or assembled incorrectly.
     
  8. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    Well, except it kind of is the point.

    The problem is when you use words like “objectively better” but can substantiate it. Your whole argument really comes off as trying to talk about "objectively better" as a defense for paying extra, and not being able to quantify a real difference.


    Most of the rollmark warriors want to talk about the numerous guns PSA puts out that are bad, as opposed to Colt, or (insert your rollmark of choice) but no one seems to be able to identify any actual numbers.





    Torque dry is accurate, wet (even if it calls for it) will give you a higher torque than indicated by the wrench.
     
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  9. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    We are going to disagree here, but I'd be glad to start another thread or conversation to discuss it further.
     
  10. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    Its not really a debate.

    https://www.researchgate.net/public...ue-Tension_Relationship_in_Threaded_Fasteners

    https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/torque-lubrication-effects-d_1693.html

    https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780021508.pdf

    We can debate if it would have any realistic impact, but its a settled science that reducing friction increases the applied torque.
     
  11. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    It is a debate because nothing you listed tells us that the torque rate is changed at the wrench.

    All it tell us is that the torque values change with lube.

    ...and the milspec torque value is wet.
     
  12. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    ...more so. Torque is better valued at fastener stretch, and not galling or friction (although friction is the winner).
     
  13. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    Saying that torque applied varies with lube tells you that it changes from indicates.


    Yes, the wet torque is spec’d because they also specify a particular grease and I would bet you dollars to doughnuts they already reduced the torque value, because they spec’d it wet.

    You can disagree with NASA and every other major mechanical institution, but it’s gonna get extremely one sided real fast.
     
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  14. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    And yet it we do based on recommendation.

    Milspec torque requires a moly lube, and that torque rating is based on such, AND so does many other applications. I'm not disagreeing with anyone but you... because I feel you are misinterpreting the results. We can guess what what people that don't read the directions do but we probably shouldn't extrapolate positive results unless directed to do so no?

    So during AR assembly do we use a moly based lube for the barrel nut or no?
     
  15. cciman

    cciman

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    I'm not quite sure what you guys are arguing about wet and dry torque, you may be saying the same things. It stands to my simple logic that applying a given numeric value of torque to a "wet" fastener will get more rotations on the thread turns than the same numeric torque value applied to a dry fastener (this I see in lug nuts easily). Perhaps you both are saying the same thing. Yes, one would think/hope that the certifying organization is modifying that torque number to not to account for that and not overstretch the thread, yet apply the intended force on the fastener.

    Most torque values do not specify an accompanying thread agent (frustrating because they sometimes forget to mention it, or it is written somewhere else on the page-- or no one seems to know), so I am assuming these sre "DRY" torque values. Even more confusing is if one uses a threadlocker, that thread is now WET, yet it is a dry torque specification number we use to turn it.
     
  16. J-Doo

    J-Doo

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    It’s a shame you’ve had all those problems. I’ve bought four complete uppers from them 3 CHF barrels and one SS barrel. I’ve had zero issues with them. As of right now I have zero complaints.
     
  17. milsurpy

    milsurpy

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    I hate PSA because they refuse to ship perfectly legal items to my state.
     
  18. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    In the instance of AR barrel nuts it does specify a moly lube. This prevents galling and allows for the proper stretch. Stretch is the desired means of achieving the thread friction not galling.


    ARSS.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  19. Crane1

    Crane1

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    Also helps you get the thing apart if you ever need to.
     
  20. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    Guys...the supposed GI standard for M4 manufacture does not use lube when they screw on a barrel...have taken enough off to know... Don't care what the GI spec says...that's a TM for a direct support level maintenance unit...not a manufacturing standard. Two entirely different things...
     
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