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I don't understand the Glock plates . . .

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by Morris, Aug 25, 2003.

  1. Morris

    Morris CLM

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    Last match I attended, you could divide the plates shooters into essentially two classes: 1) Fire as fast as you can, expend all your rounds very fast to drop six plates; 2) Take a bit more times and nail each plate with a round apiece (or two if hitting low).

    Okay, I can see the merits of both but for the speed shooters, do you find yourself sufficiently shifting your mental process on the street from speed shooting with misses to effective shot placement? I have to ask as someone who must account for every round I fire that does not hit a target (or threat). If I am being over critical or missing something (game versus training), by all means, please let me know. I'm just curious.
     
  2. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    You may be missing something, as are the shooters that miss so fast. The object is to knock down 6 plates as fast as possible, not fire 11 rounds as fast as possible--big difference. The "master class" shooters seldom miss a plate, and can drop a rack in under 2.5 seconds. They have both speed and accuracy. The hot dogs can shoot almost as fast, but miss many plates. Ignore the hot dogs, shoot accurately as fast as you can. 6 or 7 second strings with no misses is reasonable for amateurs.

    GSSF is not a "defensive" game, it is a test of accuracy at speed. You are penalized heavily for inaccurate shots. Most amateur shooters shoot GSSF too fast, an they suffer by being asessed many penalty points.

    There have been some very fast times shot in perfect matches--no penalty points assessed. Check out our unofficial Hall of Fame here.

    Don't Rush! Make every shot count!
     

  3. Rusty Phillips

    Rusty Phillips Moderator Millennium Member

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    to follow up on what danny said




    to me gssf is about accuracy first, speed second

    a missed plate (left standing) is 10 seconds added to your time, as are missed targets on the other stages

    the c and d hits on paper also ding you heavily as well (2 and 5 seconds - right?)



    so, with that in mind - which run on the plates is better??

    two seconds per shot, 12 second time, with no misses
    or 0.4 seconds per shot, 2.5 second time, with one miss



    in gssf you can shoot really slow and still beat someone who is less accurate, (but to win you need both speed and accuracy)

    check out these scores from ANDERSON this year (thank you jerry)
    http://www.gssfonline.com/results/2003/2003sc.pdf

    compare #'s 33 and 34 (competitor 281 at 139.26 seconds and competitor 008 at 140.87)

    i took significantly longer to shoot the 5tg (18 extra seconds) and a couple extra seconds on both the plates and the m..... he was alot faster than i was

    the only reason i placed slightly ahead of my good friend from virginia is because i had only 17 seconds of penalty time vs his 43 seconds


    slow down, shoot straight



    have fun
     
  4. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    What Rusted mean't to say was Anderson, not Statesville which is coming up in just under two weeks. ;f
     
  5. Rusty Phillips

    Rusty Phillips Moderator Millennium Member

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    slow down, type accurately


    have fun
     
  6. driver8m3

    driver8m3

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    i think the plates are the one part of a match that does NOT heavily penalize misses...unless you miss too many. thats why you see so many "hot dogs," as danny calls them. 2 or 3 misses on a plate run will cost you about 1 second, as long as you eventually get it down. on the other 2 stages 2 or 3 misses will cost you 20 or 30 seconds seconds. big difference.
     
  7. Morris

    Morris CLM

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    Okay, if I am reading this correctly, the name of the game about the plates is that it is a game. Speed versus time. Dump 10 rounds fast, drop all six plates at say, 5 seconds versus more accurate placement with six shot/6 hits in 7 seconds. Close? It's about the time you earn on this stage versus shot placement (such as 5toG)?
     
  8. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    Smooth and with the least amount of rounds used will get you your best results. You hit all the plates in 7 seconds with 7 rounds your score won't end up better by dumping a mag at them as fast as you can. It may impress people that think fast is where it's at, it won't win matches.
     
  9. Morris

    Morris CLM

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    Ahhh . . . makes sense now.
     
  10. RenegadeGlocker

    RenegadeGlocker

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    You have 11 rounds to get 6 targets.

    On your first pass, dump 6 rounds fast, on your second pass, use the remaining 5 rounds to accurately clean-up what you missed. If on your 'fast' pass, you are not knocking down 4 or more targets, slow down your 'fast' pass until you do. YMMV.
     
  11. Roland-G23

    Roland-G23 STI Convert

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    I've had mixed results on the plates since I started shooting GSSF in 2001. My most consistent performance has been with the G34 (seeing as how I shoot that gun the most, its not surprising). Last month in Idaho while shooting my open gun, it was taking me 2.5 seconds just to acquire the dot (need to spend more time shooting the open gun), and 3 seconds to clear the rack (firing 7 to 8 shots). My best aggregate time for a plate stage at a GSSF match has been with my 34, at 23.2 seconds with 0 misses. Still more than twice as slow as some of the master guys, but pretty fast.

    I believe the key to shooting the plates quick and accurately is to get into a rhythm, and don't stay on one plate until you hit it. Come back to clean up your misses if you have any.

    Since we don't have a plate rack at my club, I usually cut 8" cardboard circles and staple them to 4-foot lath at 11 yards. I spend quite a bit of time setting it up so that it replicates a plate rack dimensionally.

    When I started shooting USPSA, my safety-class instructor said the biggest mistake most new shooters make is in trying to go too fast too soon. Since I mostly shoot production, I do my best to shoot all A's in a stage. I'm to the point now that I can shoot faster, and its pulling me to higher overall finishes. GSSF is a different game, and I do better when I take my time. Work on shooting the stages accurately, speed will come. Speed will never compensate for accuracy in a GSSF match.
     
  12. DaleGribble

    DaleGribble Sandwich!

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    Here's my take on the plates........

    My fastest time ever on a run was 4 seconds flat without having to go back and pick any plates up. I was able to do that after reading the tips from the masters on this forum, thanks guys! ;f I think the key to the plates is shifting from plate to plate as soon as the shot breaks. Don't watch your plates fall, shoot at it and move on. It took me forever to learn to do that, but it worked when I finally started doing it.
     
  13. murph2127

    murph2127

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    Some of the best folks to coach a shooter on the plate rack are IPSC shooters. They shoot steel 2-4 times a month all year and have A LOT of practice on it. I had a lot of trouble with steel 5-6 years ago and this one fella coached me through it. This is not meant to be demeaning to GSSF at all; there are more opportunities to shoot steel at USPSA matches as many areas have 1-3 USPSA matches available each weekend year round while those same areas might have one or two GSSF matches in the same year. This is a good place for a "tune up" for a GSSF Match.

    As someone who has RO'ed the GSSF Plates for three years now I've seen all types shoot the plates. FWIW, the best way to shoot them I know of is to call your shot and believe your sight picture. When you get a good sight picture, break the shot. Move immeadately to the next plate, do not wait to hear the "ding" of the first plate. Engage that one and move on, always calling your shot from a good sight picture. You should barely notice the plates falling, just your front sight. When you have fired at all six, look forward and re-engage any you missed. If you got a good sight picture, you won't need to re-engage many if any. Worst thing to do is look at the plate to see if it is falling, you've lost sight of the front sight and will most likely shoot over the plate.

    Start this slowly and you will naturally increase your speed with experience. When you feel like you are pushing yourself, back off. It's time to go back to the basics.

    My best runs on the rack are 3.35 with a G17 though this year I was slower (been shooting revolver most the time) at about 3.89. One GSSF competor let me shoot his unlimited gun, now that is a fun way to run the plates!

    Ted
     
  14. Comrade Bork

    Comrade Bork

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    ....the timers used in GSSF, as well as in USPSA and IDPA, work by hearing the sound of the shot. When the start button is pressed, the "clock" starts internally. Each time the timer "hears" the shot, it updates the display with the elapsed time, while the internal clock continues to run. With each new shot "heard", the timer updates the display. Let us say you are shooting the plates, starting at the "low ready" position as per SOP. The RO pushes the button, the buzzer sounds AND THE CLOCK IS RUNNING. Let us say it takes you 2/10ths of a second to bring your gun up on the first plate, you fire, and you MISS. The clock is STILL running, and you have just wasted that 2/10th of a second since you missed the plate! You do not gain anything by firing fast and hitting nothing but air! YOU GAIN BY SHOOTING AS FAST AS YOU CAN HIT EACH PLATE, AND NO FASTER! Go faster, start missing, and you waste the time it took you to line up and fire each missed shot. The clock stops either when you fire your last round (and, in that case, add 10 seconds for each plate you left standing!) or you hit the sixth plate. The fastest times happen when you fire just six shots, and succeed in hitting six plates, and save 5 rounds of ammo! As others have stated, the best tactic is to choose whether to shoot from right to left or vice versa. Then, when the buzzer sounds, come up, and fire one shot at each plate in succession AND DO NOT STOP TO SEE WHETHER YOU HIT THE PLATE OR NOT! After letting the sixth shot go at the sixth plate, then "sweep" back in the opposite direction and again, take another shot at each plate you missed the first time, AGAIN not waiting to see whether or not you hit it! Repeat as necessary until you run out of ammo, or preferably, plates. ;f
     
  15. TJC

    TJC "No Compromise" Millennium Member

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  16. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    TJC is smiling. He should be nicknamed "The Busboy" because no one has ever cleared a rack of plates faster than TJC. His motto, "One plate, one bullet."

    Of course, there is that now famous half-rack.;)
     
  17. TJC

    TJC "No Compromise" Millennium Member

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    Thankfully they were not all there on the same rack. ;) But it does show you what can be done even leaving a plate. If the rest of the match was good enough, it doesn't hurt as much.:)

    I do love shooting those plates.;f
     
  18. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    TJ,

    Your records may stand for a few years.;)