close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

I am in the process of becoming a Heli pilot...

Discussion in 'Firefighter/EMS Talk' started by eingeist, Oct 31, 2006.

  1. eingeist

    eingeist

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    0
    So, I wanted to ask, are helicopter pilots allowed to fly armed? If so, is it concealed or open?


    This is just a curiosity question as in the beginning I will most likley be flying oil rig support. But want to move up to EMS work or similar.
    But, I just wonder, with airports, and aircraft the way they are now, are you allowed to carry if you are a pilot? I guess this goes for any pilot jobs... Any insight?
     
  2. TKM

    TKM Shiny Member Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2000
    Messages:
    1,654
    Likes Received:
    42
    Location:
    Just another ball of mud.
    Let us know when you grow that third hand.
     

  3. eingeist

    eingeist

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    0
    haha! Funny you mention that, as I was talking to my instructor about it, and on the radio the other morning they were having callers call in to let them know where they would want another hand "installed" if they could!. :animlol:
     
  4. jmshady

    jmshady

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    INDIANA
    Why???????????

    What would be the purpose?
     
  5. eingeist

    eingeist

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    0
    Umm.. same reason most pilots carry weapons...
     
  6. jmshady

    jmshady

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    INDIANA
    Afraid that you will be hijacked or something. Sorry had to. I have never seen a Air ambulance pilot with a weapon before. I can not think of a reason for needing it so I asked.

    So if they all nose dived the aircraft into the ground killing themselves, you would too?
     
  7. eingeist

    eingeist

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was asking in the sense that sometimes ems are around cops, and sometimes cops get in shtf situations. Wouldn't you want to be armed? Even as a citizen, we have ccw permits. So I could even ask you. "Why do you need a gun?"

    I figured since this was a gun forum, and people here were pro gun.. It would be a supported question. Basically your argument is that some people shouldn't carry guns? Why not I ask you..
     
  8. va_roadrunner

    va_roadrunner

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2004
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Fairfax, VA
    I've work with both private EMS and LE helos in flying out patients discovered during the course of our search and rescue, as well as when we train together.

    The private EMS helo crews we've worked with in Virginia do not fly armed. The LE helo crews we work with are armed typically using shoulder holsters.

     
  9. gruntmedik

    gruntmedik Honk Honk CLM

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Messages:
    7,017
    Likes Received:
    597
    Location:
    Taylorsville, KY
    It will ultimately be up to your employer. It is a no-no with my service.
     
  10. jmshady

    jmshady

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    INDIANA
    When dealing with EMS/LE you each have a specific job. In Indiana is is against the law to carry a weapon on an ambulance unless you are a LEO actively employed and carrying out those duties. Example our medics that are also LEO can carry legally but will be fired from company standpoint. The chances of you flying into a threatening situation as an air ambulance is almost slim enough to say never.

    My argument is not that some people should not carry guns. My reasoning is that if I am in a situation where A weapon is needed then I should have determined if the scene was safe in a better way, back out and let LE deal with it. If you are responding in a helicopter than you will be there more than likely after i determine a need for you and the scene is safe. I am saying there is no need for an air ambulance pilot to be armed. If the pt is a danger to the crew or themselves. There are drugs for that. If they are a danger prior to transport then they will not be transported.
     
  11. k9medic

    k9medic

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2000
    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    257
    Location:
    at an LZ near you
    Eingeist, since you also posted in cop talk, I'll add a little to this conversation.

    EMS and GOM (oil rigs) operate under FAR part 135. There is a specific regulation against the carriage of firearms:

    FAR 135.119: Prohibition against carriage of weapons.

    No person may, while on board an aircraft being operated by a certificate holder, carry on or about that person a deadly or dangerous weapon, either concealed or unconcealed. This section does not apply to—

    (a) Officials or employees of a municipality or a State, or of the United States, who are authorized to carry arms; or

    (b) Crewmembers and other persons authorized by the certificate holder to carry arms.

    Any certificate holder such as PHI, & Air logistics in the gulf or Air Methods and CJ systems in EMS will prohibit the carrying of firearms.

    These operations are also not eligable for the Federal Flight Deck officer program.


    In the beginning, you will be most likely instruct to get your 1000 hours. This will be either under part 91 or part 141. No employer will allow you to carry then either.

    While I support your endevors to carry, you must remember the your job is/will be to fly the aircraft, and only that. If the SHTF, your knowledge of firearms will be less relied upon than your knowledge of how to fly.
     
  12. Glkster19

    Glkster19

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lansing, MI
    I don't know about area's other than mine, but most if not all facilities are gun free unless you're a cop. Plus by the time you get the required hours to fly EMS you'll see you really don't have enough hands to worry about a gun anyways. :supergrin:
     
  13. eingeist

    eingeist

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey thanks! I know as a CFI I wouldn't be carrying. I was actually curious because I know airline pilots are now allowed to carry. I know I don't have now, 4, hands, so i do understand the reasoning. Obviously as a private pilot, you can carry if you want, I mean heck its your aircraft.
    Obviously there is little to no threat in doing gulf work, or even CFI work. I guess I'm just not very farmiliar with what ems pilots actually do? Obviously in any pilot job, there is some sort of risk of a hijacker, or someone like that. But I understand, and do agree, that its a one in a million chance. Hopefully when I get closer to 1000 hours, ill be able to get a better idea of where I'm headed, and maybe then I will have some more information on the elusive "air cop" positions, and if I would qualify :)

    Thanks so much!
     
  14. eingeist

    eingeist

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, k9medic, since you're so full of knowledge, let me pick your brain a bit more. My other idea once I reach a significant amount of hours, and probably my most ambitious, would be to open a private charter, and vip transport business somehow coupled with executive protection. (Not at the same time obviously.) What would be the laws and requirements of that? I've spoken to many pilots who basically were live in for a couple months at a time on various mega yachts and they flew them to and from their yacht. I could do jobs like that, or transport for executives, and whatnot, and while not in the aircraft could serve as armed protection as well. What are the laws with that? What would I have to do for the executive protection part of that theoretical business?
     
  15. k9medic

    k9medic

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2000
    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    257
    Location:
    at an LZ near you
    Start with a lot of money! :) Actually, Part 135 operations are not too hard to come by once you get past ALL of the paperwork. There are several 135 operators in the area.

    The problem is getting the money for the aircraft, insurance, and the continued operation of the aircraft. Several companies such as Blackwater out of Melbourne do this already.

    As an EMS pilot, my job is to fly, and fly only. I do not worry about patient care, or about who is put in the back. If they are a bad guy, then they are secured.

    Check out the transportation section under flight deck. You would be supprised how many pilots there are on the board.
     
  16. akulahawk

    akulahawk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you operate as a charter carrier, under part 121, or you are operating under part 91 (private pilot) only your own personal policies or the terms of your transport contract would limit your ability to be armed while you are on your own aircraft. As for doing EP on the ground, that is covered by the various state laws. That side of things is a whole different issue.

    The FAR's 91 and 121 are silent on the firearms on aircraft issue. If you have to go through the sterile terminal (screened by TSA) to get to your aircraft, that is also a different matter.