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Humane Society Now Armed

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Flash62, Jan 2, 2010.

  1. Flash62

    Flash62

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    http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2010/jan/02/humane-society-workers-now-armed/

    Humane Society workers now armed

    Workers at the Lawrence Humane Society have started carrying concealed guns to work, and they say it’s for a very good reason.

    “We have to protect not only our staff and the animals, but other people that come here,” said Midge Grinstead, executive director of the animal shelter.

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    The shelter may be most notable for being full of yappy, irresistible dogs that give those melting adopt-me-or-else looks.

    But the local shelter also is the only one in the state that investigates all cruelty and neglect cases in its county. The shelter’s three cruelty investigators respond to hundreds of calls a year, which bring a component of risk and danger to the job.

    “We’re dealing with people that might not be in the best position in their lives and we might have to take their animals, or we might have to ask them questions that would make them uncomfortable and we just want to make sure that we’re protected,” said Kayse Aschenbrenner, investigator.

    It’s the kind of tension that can sometimes spill over into the shelter when people are determined to retrieve their confiscated animals at no cost, Grinstead said. She said people have come inside the lobby on multiple occasions, pointing guns in workers’ faces, shoving them and swinging baseball bats at them.

    Mark Grinstead, the director’s husband who also works at the shelter, is used to dealing with angry people. The former fire investigator said having a gun on his hip provides him peace of mind while he is on animal cruelty calls and working at the shelter.

    “Just for safety’s sake, it’s nice to be there and have a concealed weapon,” he said. “It’s never visible; it’s just there, just in case.”

    Aschenbrenner and the Grinsteads respond to calls throughout the county, where they’ve been through the training and have the ability to remove animals from people’s property without a search warrant.

    They are not considered law enforcement, but have gone through special training at an animal cruelty school in Columbia, Mo., as well as conceal-carry training required by the state. Aschenbrenner is still pursuing her license.

    While 80 percent of the calls the investigators respond to are simply an opportunity to educate pet owners about proper care, Midge Grinstead said workers do seize animals that have been abused, starved or injured.

    “When you’re dealing with that element, things are going to escalate,” she said. “I’ve seen people lose their children while I’m taking their dogs and they’re madder about me taking the dog than they are about losing their kids.”

    The violence associated with their work is escalating, the humane society director said, and doesn’t only follow the workers around at work, but also to their homes.

    She recalled a situation last summer when someone pulled up in a car outside her home and pointed a gun at her while she was on her lawn mower.

    “There’s a time and a place for everything, but having that extra protection and having the knowledge that you can protect yourself is good enough,” said Midge Grinstead. “I’m not a big weapon fan, but I need to know that I’m protected.”


    My wife and I make yearly donations and ever since I've had my CHL I've had to disarm because they have a conforming no carry sign on their front door. I don't like the sign but I still donate. Now I wonder if that sign will be down but I'm doubting it.

    Lawrence is VERY liberal and I suspect some very negative comments concerning their employees carrying firearms.
     
  2. G36's Rule

    G36's Rule Senior Member

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    So they are NOT law enforcement, yet somehow feel then can confiscate property without a warrant?

    Sounds like theft to me. And trespassing. And if they have a gun on them on someones property that might be a good reason to shot them...

    Why anyone would donate to these liberal loons is beyond me.
     

  3. Flash62

    Flash62

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    Ummm, because the animals can't work for themselves? I don't always like their policies but I don't see that as enough to make the animals in their care suffer.
     
  4. Nutt51

    Nutt51

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    Folk's from state DFCS are not law enforcement either, but can
    take children if they are being mistreated or abused.
    I've seen some of these mistreated animals on the
    cable channel where they have to be rescued and I have
    no problem with animal control people taking them away.
    As long as the folk's working for animal control are trained
    and look after the welfare of the animals, and do everything
    honestly and by the book.
    There are a lot of Idiot's out there who should not be allowed
    to have animals, much less children.
    Just because you own something, especially a living thing, does
    not mean you can treat is anyway you want.
    Emotional situation taking an animal away from a person.
    Look how many leo's are killed and hurt every year from
    getting involved in domestic disputes.
    No problem with them carrying guns for protection in my book.
     
  5. kahrcarrier

    kahrcarrier FAHRENHEIT

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    I'll side with the animals every time. And the people that protect them; liberal, conservative, whatever. Let them carry firearms.............. I do.


    I am known to report animal abuse cases that I witness; it is something I just cannot tolerate. I will HOUND the proper agencies until something is done.

    I know of a couple of dogs that have been tied outside with NO shelter in the dead of winter to disappear off of their chains. Did I take them? Well, of course not, that would be trespassing and possibly theft. :whistling:
    But I am pretty sure no "warrant" was involved.

    Abuse your animals? Don't let me see you.

    Giving them proper care? Won't hear a peep out of me............
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2010
  6. vafish

    vafish

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    So you support the use of people that have an animal rights agenda, and are under no control of elected officials, no accountability to the people, to enter property without a warrant and seize personal property (animals are simple property here in VA)?

    Around here we have county animal wardens who must attend the county police academy and are part of the county police department. They follow the constitution of the United States and all local, State and Federal laws. They have full arrest powers and carry guns just like a police officer does. If they seize an animal it is taken to the county animal shelter.

    The Humane Society runs an animal shelter, but they have no legal authority beyond that of any other citizen.

    I don't have a problem with the Humane Society personnel carrying for their own protection. I applaud them for doing so. I do have a problem with a private organization being allowed to enter private property and take private property from individuals. With no accountability to the people. That's no different then having Blackwater contractors do drug enforcement operations.

    The way it should work is if the Humane Society investigator determines that there is probable cause to believe animal abuse is taking place they take their information to law enforcement personnel who get a warrant and enter the property.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2010
  7. Flash62

    Flash62

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    I don't know Kansas Law but I suspect it allows them to do this. If the animal is in enough distress I think this is fine as long as the animal is removed for care and then the situation is reviewed by the legal system. At this point I see no information that this wouldn't be the way it's done.

    I did state that I don't like everything the LHS does but that doesn't keep me from donating money to help the animals in their care. I'm not into throwing the baby out with the bath water.
     
  8. Jon91N/A

    Jon91N/A

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    Oh give me a freaking break. This isn't PETA throwing paint on people with fur coats, this is people helping animals that are abused and treated like **** by the very people who are supposed to care for them. No, I don't have a problem with them taking animals from people but I also don't have a problem with those same people preventing the humane society from coming onto their property. Not everything is black and white you know.
     
  9. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    Who determines this?
     
  10. G36's Rule

    G36's Rule Senior Member

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    Yeah, actually it is. The Humane Society does their fair share of anti-hunting propaganda. They are very active in some states at attempting to get anti-hunting measures passed as well.

    So any donations that go to the Humane Society are helping them in their efforts.
     
  11. Smashy

    Smashy

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    Nothing like an informed, educated advocate. :upeyes:
     
  12. G33

    G33 Frisky! CLM Millennium Member

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    Focus people.
    Can they be armed to defend themselves?

    Let a judge decide the rest.
    :supergrin:
     
  13. Glock20 10mm

    Glock20 10mm Use Linux!

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    I think this would be a case of observation and common sense.
     
  14. RenoF250

    RenoF250

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    They are not breaking the door down and going in side they are seeing the abuse of the animals from the outside. Once they see that abuse is taking place a crime is being committed and they can stop it. If you heard a woman yelling and then went and saw her being abused through a window would you just stand there and let it happen? You don't need a warrant to stop an active crime.
     
  15. Notrega

    Notrega

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    :goodpost:
     
  16. Notrega

    Notrega

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    :goodpost:
     
  17. G36's Rule

    G36's Rule Senior Member

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    Sure. So long as they are on their own property. But since they are not LE I would think it a very bad idea for them to carry while out and about doing their business.

    Better to have real LEO's present if they want to confront a property owner.
     
  18. G36's Rule

    G36's Rule Senior Member

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    As a citizen I have a right to attempt to stop a crime under some circumstances. I do NOT have a right to confiscate property under any circumstances. Neither do they.

    If animal abuse is going on, get the real law involved.
     
  19. Carrys

    Carrys Inquisitive

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    There's the ticket.

    Where ever you live, it's your laws that allow such an agency to do what it does. Don't like it, change the laws.....it's that simple.

    No "agency", "dept", or "office" can do anything without the law allowing them to do it. You just have to get enough like minded people together and have the law changed. Now, if you are unable to do that, either the people want to be shoved around by these type of folks or they just don't care.

    I agree that's it's a rude case when anyone except law enforcement can do such things, but it's your town's/state's law that lets them.

    In either case, not much you can do. Except perhaps take care of your animals.
     
  20. G36's Rule

    G36's Rule Senior Member

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    Yeah, I guess that whole Fourth Amendment thingie is kind of out the door nowadays...

    :sad: