How much more substantial is the 9mm vs the .380acp for self defense?

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by arkephonic, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. fredj338

    fredj338

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    100%. Most people carry a pocket rocket to feel comfy. Why few practice with them, not ready for a fight imo. If I am worried enough about my safety & my family to carry a gun, I carry something I can fight with, regardless of the fight, cntact to 50y, 1 or more attackers. After all, I doubt I get to choose which fight comes to me.
     
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  2. GeorgiaGlocker

    GeorgiaGlocker Romans 10:9

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    I would agree but you could find yourself in a physical altercation with someone and both of you are grabbing for the gun.
     

  3. PennsWoods

    PennsWoods

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    And? Not sure I follow.
     
  4. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer

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    That's the role of the .380 and other small, light, pocket pistols:
    they are carried always, not just whenever you happen to feel worried enough about your safety.

    That's been true for over a century, and will always be true.

    [​IMG]...[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG].[​IMG]..[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
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  5. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    I think the argument could be made that a man that practices with a .380 mouse gun is better armed than a man that doesn't practice with his 45acp. The person is either proficient or they aren't.

    Effective combat range is subjective and subject to the environment. Fred mentioned back on another page about having to defend yourself in a parking lot with the 'combat' distance being perhaps the length of a couple of cars. That is entirely valid. If someone was in a more rural setting that distance could be longer. Another typical distance is from your bedroom to the front door (or other spot in your home you're typically in that has a straight-shot to the front door).

    While a 25+ yard shot with an LCP may or may not be practical, proficiency out to 7-10 yards with it would be appropriate for the majority of issues faced. With the realization that most confrontations requiring deadly force are likely to be 7 feet rather than 7 yards.
     
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  6. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Nice try but seriously? This is an entirely diff age. Armed thugs in urban areas, terrorists, semiauto rifles. No, a pocket rocket isn't really there for your defense but for comfort., like carrying a rabbits foot. Especially when you don't train & practice with them.
     
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  7. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Yet I see people miss at 5-7y with full size guns trying to rush. Imagine under the duress of an attack, how bad your hit potential is if you cant do it under the modest stress of a competition? Yes some guys/gals are very, very good with their BUG, but most people never shoot them. They practice with the full size pistol, then pocket the LCP & call it gtg.
     
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  8. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    No doubt for many this is true.
     
  9. SmithModelOne

    SmithModelOne

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    This is 100% correct.

    For most people, the limitation isn't the gun or the caliber of the bullet chambered. It's the person holding the gun. Thus, 9mm vs 380 becomes a futile argument.

    Train, train, train.

    Mike
     
  10. army_eod

    army_eod US Army Retired, EOD, PM, PMP

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    007 only needed the .380. Nuff said.
     
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  11. Terry G

    Terry G

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    Walther PPK 7.65 MM. A .32. Warm weather is a 14 shot 9MM CZ P-01. I can hit reliably at 25 yards, so short range and longer range is covered. Cold weather is a CZ 97b. I have a Ruger LCP II but it's strictly as back up. On the other hand I have carried a 9X18MM CZ 82, but that's a gun that is accurate at longer ranges and carries 12 rounds. I fired up my carry ammunition of two magazines of 9MM Golden Saber yesterday cleaned the gun and reloaded the magazines. I do this once a week. This way I know the guns working and I know I'm working. Next month I'll switch to the .45 97b.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
  12. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Well, think about the guys who attend a short "self defense" course, and then maybe sign up to "practice" a couple nights a week to get "some exercise". How many of them think they're "prepared" to defend themselves against 1 or 2 attackers who probably use physical violence on damned near a daily basis, for real? Some may be, but many (most?) may not be.

    The mindset to effectively utilize the limited training is also important. Then, there's the experiential knowledge to consider.

    How is that different than the gun owner who may never get any formal training (to at least recognize and try to correct bad habits), but thinks burning rounds once or twice a month (or maybe half a dozen times per year?) makes them "prepared"?

    Sure, confirming skillset with a small gun is at least comparable to skillset with a larger gun and is something worth considering. That's been the case since people carrying full-size service revolvers for work decided to carry a small snub nose away from work. Better make sure your skillset acquired using the bigger revolver successfully transfers over to using the smaller one, as the smaller snubs usually require more of the shooter.

    Nowadays we have really diminutive pistols with plastic frames, offered in both "service" and "pocket" calibers.

    When I bought my first LCP there was a bit of a learning curve, mostly because (in my case) the little .380 had a very thin and short grip frame. It took a little trigger time to adjust to applying my snub nose DA/DAO revolver skillset set to using the little LCP. Then I picked up a second LCP. There quickly came a point where running the little .380 through the usual qual course-of-fire pretty much felt the same as running one of my lightweight snubs through the CoF.

    However, I still experienced a difference in how well I could use one of my snubs versus one of my LCP's out at further distances, meaning out at 30-40yds. The LCP's aren't as easy to use to get relatively quick and reasonably accurate hits at those distances as my snub's.

    Then again, I didn't decide to get the LCP's for use at those distances. They were chosen as an alternative to my Airweight and M&P snub revolvers when I couldn't conceal and carry one of my snubs in the shorter and tighter front pockets in some of my jeans. If the distances involved are ever greater than 15+/- yards, the LCP .380's aren't going to be quite as practical as my snub revolvers, nor my larger 9/.40/.45's. But I knew that going in.
     
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  13. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Yet your skill level, or mine for that matter, vastly diff than the avg homeowner or Ccw or even LEO. I would bet most toting a j-frame cant hit anything past 21ft w/ anything that remotely looks like speed. Forget distance beyond that. Same goes for pocket 380 or now micro 9m. IMO, unless you are a high level shooter, you are going to need more than annual familiarity with your pocket rocket, even at the most common victim distances of 21ft & under.
     
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  14. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Yep.

    This is where individual responsibility is supposed to come into play.

    Not everyone looks at it the same way, though. Obviously.

    It's as though some folks may seem to think that "prepared enough" may mean the same thing as "well prepared".

    People and human nature. Predictable. Also easy to deny. ;)
     
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  15. fredj338

    fredj338

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    100%. One of my retired LEO buddies hadn't shot anything in 2-3 years, bought a new Shield & was carrying it without ever firing a shot. So I finally chided him enough to go to the range with me, private bay, no one else around. Yes the Shield worked, but if the bad guy was serious, my friend dies in the first magazine worth at 10y. He finally settled down & started getting decent hits about mag 3. After 50 rds he could keep his hits in the 8" zone of an idap target, but only in slow fire. At least the pistol functioned 100% with his ball ammo & then a mag worth of his GDHP. He was a but embarrassed but I told him previous training only takes you so far, gotta put some trigger time in. He has a standing offer to shoot with me any weekend he wants to go.
     
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  16. Wurger

    Wurger

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    How far do you go on the shot placement is king of all? I can put .22 LR on target better than a .380. So should I carry a .22LR?
     
  17. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    Which had a 'delivery like a brick through a plate glass window' :)

     
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  18. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Glad I'm not the only one who remembers that. ;)
     
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  19. GeorgiaGlocker

    GeorgiaGlocker Romans 10:9

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    Regardless of caliber shot placement is crucial. I know folks that will only carry a 45 believing that it will always get the job done. Most of the time I would agree but again it comes down to shot placement. There are plenty of folks now resting in cemeteries that met there demise with a much smaller caliber. I have carried a 380 and a 40 caliber and have felt confident with it. I now carry a 9mm and feel just as confident. But everyone is different and it comes down to personal preference.
     
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  20. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    I can't remember, but it may have been Mas who once described the .380 as "minimal marginal", or at the minimal end of marginal? Something like that. Hell, I'll have to ask him. ;)
     
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