How much more substantial is the 9mm vs the .380acp for self defense?

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by arkephonic, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    31,224
    Likes Received:
    9,892
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    ALso consider that in Euro countries where LEO carry a 380, there are also soldiers carrying 9mm subs. They are the ones that respond to shootings. Go to any Euro airport & see who guards the airport, not local cops carrying 380 pistols.
     
    Deputydave likes this.
  2. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    31,224
    Likes Received:
    9,892
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    The reality is most people that carry guns, including LEO, can NOT place the rounds where they want under stress. Just fact. So the whole bullet placement thing goes out the window pretty quickly. It is why we all don't tote 22lr, because if bullet placement were that easy to achieve in a dynamic enviro, a 22lr to the head would be all that was needed.:crazy:
     
    rayzer007 and glock20c10mm like this.

  3. GeorgiaGlocker

    GeorgiaGlocker Romans 10:9

    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    8,146
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    I think it's a matter of perspective. Which would you choose.....

    A .380 round in the heart or a 9mm round in the foot?
     
  4. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    31,224
    Likes Received:
    9,892
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    Except you are shooting solids, not my 1st or 5th choice. Today we have a bunch of good subcompact 9mm that are easy to shoot well. More seem to be coming every month as more people ccw & 9mm is really the floor for a decent SD gun.
     
    rayzer007 likes this.
  5. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    31,224
    Likes Received:
    9,892
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    IF one could guarantee the 380 hits the heart, maybe a good argument, but I would submit if you can shoot a 380 well in a tiny gun, you can shoot a 9mm well in a slightly bigger tiny gun. SHoot a P365 or G43, you will not likely go back to a 380.
    Far too many people pocket a small gun they never shoot. They practice with full size guns & then carry a pocket rocket they shoot once a year. They also think because they can hit something at contact they are good to go. Yet your fight might go the length of two cars, about 40-45ft (think attack in a parking lot), now you are missing & running out of ammo. The LCP is a good example of a pistol you carry a lot & shoot a little. Yes I can shoot one, but it is a lot harder & slower to get good hits past 30ft or so vs most subcompact 9s.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  6. Schrag4

    Schrag4

    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    3,747
    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    380 sucks, sure, but it’s a compromise. There’s a reason guns like the LCP are pretty popular. They can be carried in any pocket, in a pocket holster. I’m actually less concerned with bullet performance than I am with the shootability of a micro 380 like the LCP, and to a lesser extent, the capacity of a double stack gun.

    Now that it’s cooling off, I’m glad I can carry the larger gun more often. I definitely don’t feel undergunned with 10+1 and 17 in the reload (9mm JHP).
     
    Deputydave likes this.
  7. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes Received:
    4,922
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 1999
    Location:
    Florida
    Yeah, that does strike it a bit odd. I wonder why they would chose the .380 over the 9mm in those countries. I'd be curious if they are also carrying FMJ in .380 in those countries.

    I agree with anything except something like the LCP. In dress slacks and a tucked in shirt (like a formal occasion) the LCP really finds it's niche. But for a G42 sized weapon, yes, I see no real advantage of the G42 or S&W BG over the 365.

    Agreed! They really need to see how it feels, how it shoots and not just how it carries. I've put a fair amount of rounds through my little LCP. Not a fun pistol to shoot by any regard, but at least I know what to expect. Even just running a couple of magazines full of ammo on the mouse gun when at the range with other weapons is a good idea. Keeps it fresh in the mind.
     
    fredj338 likes this.
  8. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    31,224
    Likes Received:
    9,892
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    I consider once a month a minimum for live fire practice. It should be meaningful, that is not flat range, 21 ft slow fire but something a bit more dynamic. If that is a mag or two with the mousegun, certainly enough to maintain familiarity.
    I ran a friends LCP a bit. In close it is pretty easy to get fast accurate hits with. The poor sights & marginal trigger make fast good hits out at 30ft a bit of a challenge, beyond that it requires a lot more focus than I need running my g26.
     
  9. M 7

    M 7

    Messages:
    1,926
    Likes Received:
    547
    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    I went the exact opposite way you did. My G42 is what I carry when I don't want to carry a gun; always loaded with 95-grain FMJs to ensure adequate penetration.
     
  10. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

    Messages:
    27,779
    Likes Received:
    10,530
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Location:
    U.S.A.
  11. G19Cfan

    G19Cfan

    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    3,551
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2017
    It is a combinstion of pistol and shooter. The higher power of the 9mm means much snappier recoil - that recoil is magnified by a smaller framed pistol. The G43 is a much snappier pistol to shoot than the G42. They are very similar firearms, but very different animals to shoot.

    As I pointed out before, ammo selection is critical. The Underwood round has the same penetration as the 9mm round, while still generating a wicked wound channel (though not quite as large as a 9mm JHP).

    The reason why I chose a G42 over a G43 is because I found the G43 was not significantly smaller than my G19. It was only about 1/8" narrower while the G42 was closer to 1/4" - making it easier to conceal.
     
  12. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes Received:
    4,922
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 1999
    Location:
    Florida
    We all have to be comfortable with our choices, and it's a personal thing. The G42 is a sound platform and I never had any issues with mine. What made you choice the G42 over a comparably sized 9mm like the P365 or LC9s?
     
  13. Schrag4

    Schrag4

    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    3,747
    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    I shoot my LCP at IDPA once in a while, and I agree with your assessment. It’s perfectly fine up close, but difficult to shoot well at distance. It’s definitely a compromise. I need to shoot it more often. I bought 380 dies to address the ammo cost issue so I have literally no excuse for not shooting it more. This thread inspires me to make sure it makes an appearance at the range much more often.
     
    fredj338 and Deputydave like this.
  14. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    31,224
    Likes Received:
    9,892
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    I carry a g26 pretty mch all the time. I had been running a g19 in competition weekly. This year I decided to run the g26 all year. It shoots a lot like my g19, only real diff is fast reloads are harder to achieve, but accuracy at speed, even out to 40y is there. I am 100% comfortable with it in my 10+1 state witn good jhp like HST 124gr +p. I have a g27 with 357sg bbl I want to try but I suspect it a bit slower in drills for a marginal gain in terminal perf. We shall see.
     
    Teecher45 likes this.
  15. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    31,224
    Likes Received:
    9,892
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    Low speed rn bullets, not even 38sp level. If I were to even consider a 380, the hottest flat point solid I can get. Shoot it enough so i can deliver 6rds from my ccw in under 3sec at 7y. Then hope my attacker isnt too big & I can run 20y while I reload.
     
  16. M 7

    M 7

    Messages:
    1,926
    Likes Received:
    547
    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Good question, Dave.

    First, weight is a significant factor, not only for comfort, but in this particular case, for how it carries/lays in a pocket; less mass means it does not shift, swing and/or "show" as readily when carried that way. The second factor is that I can, with a small magazine grip extension, get all fingers on the grip taking further advantage the third factor, the very gentle recoil of the Glock 42. I am sometimes compelled to provide consults in NPEs, so sometimes it becomes necessary to sacrifice "capability" for "discretion". I'd love to carry a full size "service-caliber" pistol everywhere, but since that is not always possible, I'll take a G42 loaded with FMJs and work within the constraints of what I can have.

    In any event, the G42 loaded with FMJs beats the dickens out of relying on a set of keys and harsh language for self defense. :)
     
    Deputydave likes this.
  17. PennsWoods

    PennsWoods

    Messages:
    854
    Likes Received:
    1,562
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2018
    If for physical limitations/handicaps a person really couldn't hit accurately with a 9MM, sure.

    For the rest of us, aiming for center mass and hitting a foot would be a serious training issue that needs to be fixed at the range/training environment, not the gun shop with a different caliber.
     
    Deputydave likes this.
  18. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes Received:
    4,922
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 1999
    Location:
    Florida
    Sounds like you’ve thought it out well for your needs. Only thing I would suggest would be one of the loadings that uses the XTP bullet in place of the FMJ’s. Very good penetration and in the longer barrel of the G42 perhaps decent expansion.
     
    Teecher45 and M 7 like this.
  19. unit1069

    unit1069

    Messages:
    9,781
    Likes Received:
    1,943
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Location:
    So. Central US
    I just threw that option out there for consideration as an aside. The fact is, with today's roster of 9mm pistols --- some practically pocket pistols --- there's no reason to choose a lesser caliber. I will say I was surprised to learn how many new JHP ammo options there are for .380ACP and 9X18 calibers, not that it's changed my mind.
     
    Teecher45 likes this.
  20. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan NRA Life Member.

    Messages:
    3,148
    Likes Received:
    1,842
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Location:
    Indiana
    Haven't you ever shot them?