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Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by kcboy, Nov 11, 2005.
how po ba now ang colt 1911? someone is trying to sell me at 23k...is it cheap already?
NIB (new in box) 55k -90k depending on model and who's selling it.
Without knowing who's selling it to you, I'll just warn you that there are so many fake Colt's 1911's around.
Even 'genuine' second hand Colt's tend to have had the valuable parts replaced with cheap crap prior to sale.
ganun po ba? kilala ko po naman yungngabebenta...sya yung naglalakad ng mga lic n ptc ko for me. wish i knew how to look at it....nakasetup na daw kasi....nakabeaver tail na din daw. color black...
Bring it to a competent gunsmith for your peace of mind. P23 thou is still big bucks whichever way you look at it. I would not want to part with mine.
anyone can recommend a competent gunsmithin qc area para dun ko patingin?
Well, there it is, right there:
a new beavertail grip safety has been installed, and I betcha it ISN'T an original Colt part that was used. The same may apply to many other, more valuable parts of the pistol, assuming it actually started out as a Colt --after all, even the seller may be unaware of its true status.
Use Google Image seach to find hi-res images of the same model of Colt's 1911 --especially what the barrel looks like with the slide field-stripped off-- and you'll have a better idea of what's what.
Better still if you can ask to see the actual pistol, take CLEAR photos of the piece, and then post the same here for comments. Best if you can snap a sharp closeup of the slide's roll-mark (the logo, etc), and of the field-stripped pistol (barrel visible):
You can tell the seller kuno that you're considering buying it on behalf of a friend in the province who wants to see it first, hence the photos.
EDIT: Just saw your last post. If you can acually bring it to a gunsmith, then you can certainly take photos of it (borrow a decent dig. camera with macro capability), and post the images here on this thread. Either you have the deal of the year on your hands, or more likely, you don't.
thank you soooooo much for the advice....will try to do that...
One more thing.
Because there's so much romance and history associated with a Colt 1911, the price goes way up if the gun has some historical value.
If the gun being sold to you is from WWII, Php 23K is a bargain.
Check out Saruman's Gun Directory near the top of the BOG threads and look for Aim Precision Works (Febre Armory) in QC. Its GM, Nano Cacho III is a die-hard Colt 1911 enthusiast. This guy will buy anything that has a prancing pony engraved on it, even rusty nails.;f
He should be able to help you out in your decision. Good luck.
ganito ba yung 1911 binibenta sa iyo?
It this Colt, what I think it is? ;f
Excellent example posted by Doc EC!
Never mind the actual layout of the legends and logo...
See how the cheval rampant is almost unrecognizable as our favorite pony?
It looks more like a giant sloth, but hey... that's because the incisions in the metal
are too broad. A bit like the result of trying to draw a tiny fine portrait
on a postage stamp with a broad felt tip pen (rotary engraving tool, anyone?).
If the corners in some legends --the bend of an L, for example, are not sharp
and square, that's even more evidence of a knockoff engraving
as opposed to a genuine rollmark.
Fineness of lines and very sharp corners are made possible via true rollmarking.
Unless worn down through use, the metal also tends to 'pucker' up slightly
around the actual impressions ---see Daguerre's real Colt (new series 70).
Logo's recognizably a pony, neh?:
Or look at Shmackey's Colt Commander...again, that pony is still a pony:
There was a regrettable period not too long ago, when Colt went with
large-lettering rollmarks, as in cratz2's blaster here :
For me, the original rollmarks of the GI 1911's and 1911A1's are the best...
though it is highly unlikely you are being offered a real GI 1911.
Not at that price. Wish I had a GI-- even a non-functioning one.
try ko po kumuha ng pics at post ko dito so you can give me some expert advice. color all black daw.
How about this one? Is this a real Colt?
the photo above is an imperial defence ranger 1911a1 being passed as a genuine colt.
actually, binebenta kay Chie yan. sabi ko, the engraving looks too perfect and the pony looks too big. yun na nga, umamin yung seller its a knock-off. but hey, being a copycat is the highest form of flattery.
How about an Ithaca 1911? galing from a war veteran.. ayaw nga ibenta kahit may offer na 60th..
Sir KCBoy, this is rather long but hope it will help you decide...
Buying a used 1911
When considering the purchase of a USGI or other older 1911-type pistol, one fact must bear in mind: regardless of condition, they are all used. Even if it's supposedly like new in the box, somebody else still previously owned it. Maybe just the government, maybe the war vet who bought it home, maybe ten bajillion other collectors before you. In any event, when inspecting a firearm with an eye for possible acquisition you'll need to determine its true condition. This applies not only to the usual items (remaining original finish, correct parts and markings, etc.) but also its mechanical condition. You certainly don't want to buy a gun that's only useful as a paperweight or wall hanger, even if you don't intend to ever actually fire it. Mechanical condition also affects value, for obvious reasons. Even if the pistol appears to be in like-new shape, if it has suffered some sort of damage or isn't in safe working order it won't be worth much to anybody.
The following information, while pertaining mostly to USGI guns is still applicable to any used 1911-type pistol, commercial or military.
The first thing to look at is the overall condition of the outside of the pistol, including underneath the grips (take a screwdriver with you when you go shopping). Things to check for:
*Original finish and correct parts. Non-original finish, incorrect parts or obvious modifications are something to be wary of.
*Correct assembly. I've seen several 1911s where the mainspring housing pin and hammer pin were switched, which is easy to do and a sign of incompetent assembly. While in itself not a big deal and easily recified, it may be a sign that somebody was messing with things they shouldn't. Check that the plunger tube and grip screw bushings are securely staked in the frame.
*Finish wear. If the finish is worn in the usual areas (front strap, sharp edges, etc.) there's nothing to alarmed over. However, lack of finish in areas that don't normally see wear, when the other high-wear areas are fine indicates something isn't right. Be advised however that some areas typically show finish wear for reasons that new collectors may not recognize. An example is on the right side of the frame in front of the serial number. Often the finish will be worn in that location because of the brass flap hold-down button on the M1912 leather holster abrading it over time (a sewn-in piece of leather protected the pistol from the brass button, but the pressure eventually wore the finish anyway). Another example is the front left side of the dust cover, which also receives an abnormal amount of contact wear from the rough leather inside the holster.
*Rust, pitting, or corrosion. The three are different forms of damage, but they are all a bad thing. Rust is obvious, a reddish-brown crusty matter resulting from exposure to moisture (or some acids) that destroys the finish and begins to attack the metal underneath. Once this happens the result is pitting, the tiny "potholes" formed in the metal after it gets eaten away. Corrosion is like rust/pitting, but it is usually the result of exposure to strong acids or other chemicals, or even blood. It can leave small pits, or it can also eat up a large surface area at once.
*Cracks or peening damage. Look closely at the slide and frame for signs of cracking. See photo below for areas to inspect.
*Excessive component wear. It's common knowledge that military 1911s weren't fitted together nearly as snug as modern commercial pistols, however normally they weren't rattle-traps either. Some play of the slide and frame (both vertical and horizontal) is normal, but excessive movement may indicate badly worn parts. The barrel and bushing were also less than snug, but again excessive play should be noted. If the pistol seems extremely loose yet there is almost no finish wear to the contact areas it's time to look even closer (i.e. the pistol may have been refinished). Verify that the rear of the slide is relatively flush with the frame. If not, then the bottom feet of the lower barrel lugs are probably worn.
To do a more thorough inspection will require field-stripping the pistol. It's not necessary to completely detail-strip the pistol, but if you are able to, do so by all means! For instructions on how to field- or detail-strip a 1911, close this window and return to M1911.ORG, then select "Disassembly" from the menu in the left column of the site.
*Check internally for signs of cracking or peening damage. Check the breechface, barrel lugs (top and bottom), internal slide lugs, disconnector cutout, and slide/frame rails. Slight peening of the slide stop notch in the slide is normal on early production guns, but severe peening isn't.
*Check for signs of abuse. Make sure the pistol shows no evidence of a blowup (kB, or kaBoom!). If the slide or frame appears slightly bowed the pistol may have suffered a kB at some point. Other signs of abuse include deep gouges or peening marks on the slide and frame around the slide stop. It tells you that an incompetent person once tried to remove the slide stop using brute force, without understanding how to properly field-strip a 1911-type pistol.
*Check for signs of rust or pitting. It is particularly important to look underneath the grip panels, as moisture often collects there to form rust. Other vulerable areas include inside the slide recess, the magazine well, inside the frame under the mainspring housing, and any bare unfinished areas.
*Inspect the barrel. Check the condition of the bore, and examine the barrel in and out for cracks or peening damage. A loose barrel link pin is common, but really should be tight or at least staked in place.
*Look at the interior markings (if any) very closely. Fortunately most counterfeiters are somewhat lazy, and they'll often fail to either apply or remove authentic-looking inspection marks inside the gun. It is at this point that knowledge of what markings are normally found inside a particular pistol is important. Either refer to one of Charles W. Clawson's excellent books, or else seek the advice of a more knowledgeable collector. However, if you're the type who buys first and asks questions later you might not be too happy further down the road.
*Don't forget to look at the small parts closely. They can suffer from rust, cracks, peening, and wear just like the more important parts like the slide, frame, and barrel. While they may be comparatively easy to replace, finding an identical replacement part is often a real challenge at this late date. If you do manage to find another part expect to pay a premium for it as well. Some early parts are virtually impossible to find anywhere, at any price.
*Last, but certainly not the least important, look for signs of alteration, modification, or attempts to repair defects or damage. You'd be surprised what some folks will do to a poor unsuspecting pistol, and later what they'll do to cover it up when it comes time to sell the gun. Feed ramps can be ground on, trigger shoes added or removed, big sights brazed on then later removed, milling work done then later welded back up, or markings ground off or altered. Assume nothing, suspect everything.
Once the initial checks have been completed, the next task is to verify soundness of function. You probably won't have a chance to actually fire live ammunition through it, but even if you have no plans to ever shoot the pistol its functionality is important. Work the slide action, looking for signs of binding or ill-fitting parts. Operate all controls, cock the hammer, pull the trigger (by the way, making sure it's unloaded first is probably a good idea too). Most important though, make sure all parts work properly and safely. A fairly complete function check can be performed by using the guidelines provided here:
thank you so much for that long post.it was so helpful....atleast now i know more....and i mean really more....;b
I like the pics, il post din mine nga.