How many of you train martial arts?

Discussion in 'Tactics and Training' started by 19+15+1, Feb 1, 2017.

  1. 19+15+1

    19+15+1

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    I'm curious how many people here train martial arts in addition to shooting? I've always been of the mindset that self defense must include not just gun skills but unarmed combat skills. The gun, as great as it is, is just one tool, and I wouldn't feel complete if I couldn't handle myself reasonably well in a hand-to-hand situation, or didn't have the physical fitness to survive an intense physical encounter or deal with any number of scenarios.

    One thing I feel martial arts has given me is the confidence that I won't pull out my gun in self defence unless my life or someone else's is in imminent danger. Your basic physical encounter or getting punched in the face is not something I fear much. I deal with that in training all the time. So I don't think I would shoot someone in that situation. Of course, that assumes we're not dealing with knives or multiple opponents or other threat intensifiers.

    Another interesting thing that I've discovered is that the longer I train martial arts the more I realize my limitations. When you're confronted by the reality that comes from training with very skilled guys on a regular basis it tends to humble you. You realize that you just don't know who you're dealing with in the real world. That frail looking old guy might be a former K1 kickboxing champion. It's the guys you least expect that are often the most dangerous.

    So I'm curious who else cross-trains? And what you've gained from it.

    And by the way, I consider shooting to be a martial art, but that's a whole nuther topic.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
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  2. ronin.45

    ronin.45

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    I've always considered shooting a martial art as well. While it's not as physical as unarmed arts, to do it well takes serious skill and years of training/practice.

    I do think knowing how to handle yourself without a gun is important too.
     
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  3. SpringerTGO

    SpringerTGO

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    I trained for over a decade in Jiu Jitsu, and other martial arts as well. I'm older now, and pretty much lost touch with training. I tried getting back on the mat a few years ago, but time takes it's toll. I have friends who fought in cages, and never really understood that. Some of them had some pretty nasty injuries. Like the op said, you never know who you are going to run into. Martial arts are fun, but I've been beat up (like being in a fight) just training.
     
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  4. 11B101ABN

    11B101ABN

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    Keep in mind that directed blows to the face are only good for two things: to incapacitate or kill. They are a trigger for lethal force.
     
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  5. Elessar

    Elessar

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    I was in a serious fight several years ago and survived. However, I was able to "observe" the episode, in which I took a beating, from an abstract perspective, sort of...but not really since I was on the bottom. But that's another story...

    What really surprised me was, as I reflected on my experience and I talked with a lot of guys later, over an extended period, that no one else had ever been in any serious kind of fight, ever.

    None. Zero.

    No one I know has been in any kind of fight since grade school or high school. That was a serious awakening for me because I thought that many of my associates would have been in some kind of altercation of one kind or another at some point after growing up. The surprise reinforced the perspective how very soft and squishy we've become as a society, at least in some parts, and how unaware we are of real world conflicts.

    I will agree that shooting and self defense are part of martial arts but that most people only practice in a limited form.

    Side note: it didn't hurt near as much as I thought it would...
     
  6. redline06

    redline06

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    For the past year and a half I've been training in martial arts and firearms training. Using fists and kicks also learning how to fight with knives, sticks, pens, keys, rocks, clipboards, etc. anything can be used as weapon.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  7. Mopaditi

    Mopaditi

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    I wonder how many confrontations lead to use of lethal force compared to non-lethal? My guess is that as a civilian there is a FAR greater chance of the latter. If this is true, then I want to be able to protect myself and my family without resorting to my firearm. I have trained in martial arts and also carry OC and a kubotan keychain. Check out this killing (judged justified) and ask yourself if some hand-to-hand combat skills instead of a firearm could have prevented this man's death.

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjqtB9UXZpI&t=5s
     
  8. redline06

    redline06

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    Very true Mopediti, hand to hand skills are far more likely to be used than firearms. Plus if someone gets the drop on you ( god forbid) and they discover your firearm you better damn well know how to fight them off because, now it has turned into a deadly force encounter! And at the end of the day you want to go home alive!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  9. jfusaro

    jfusaro

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    Hand to hand, no thanks.
    The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
     
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  10. Maccabeus

    Maccabeus

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    I think this is pretty typical for a majority of people living in modern day USA. Especially anyone who is upper middle class and above. We live in a bubble compared to much of the world and much of human history. A soft, peaceful, comfortable, pampered bubble.

    This is true, too. Even when I was active LEO and had a measure of training, I only had enough skill to win against the untrained, drunks, or someone of equal minimal training if I had the element of surprise. Considering my physique is on par with a handful of toothpicks, I invested my energy in verbal judo, not hand to hand skills. The only fights and wrestling matches I had to deal with on the job were the ones that came up when another officer was taking the lead on the call. I found other methods of resolution when it was my call.

    20 years into a different and non-physical career field with a schedule that doesn't permit me to take regular classes even if I wanted to, I doubt if I could do more than an arm-bar takedown.
     
  11. WT

    WT Millennium Member

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    Retired from martial arts after 40 years. Fought in the black belt heavyweight division.

    Occasionally trained in an inner city dojo run by C.O.'s from the state prison and ex-cons. Fought Joe Lewis in an exhibition bout. Also some Small Circle JJ with Wally Jay.

    Learned a lot from all of them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
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  12. maxmanta

    maxmanta

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    I trained in Shotokan karate and Jiujitsu off and on over the years, and still practice it occasionally.

    I do it mostly for kicks (so to speak) and don't really believe it'll help much in a real throw down. If a real fight comes my way, I'm grabbing whatever is handy. Master Jobe said it best: you're not gonna' block a manhole cover.
     
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  13. Leopardtrack

    Leopardtrack

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    I was a police officer for 25 years in New York. I've seen ALLOT of crazy and stupid stuff in my career trust me but I had to watch that video 2X to make sure that the guy/shooter did what I thought he did....he followed the other guy (obviously an enraged lunatic) outside and confronted him over throwing a bag of M&M's at a clerk...WTF?

    What on EARTH was he thinking??

    Sure the aggressor was a lunatic but what did he really do? The guy LEFT. nIt's over. LET HIM GO and call the police if you want to.

    The dead guy was crazy yes but shooter escalated the situation by confronting him. If he assaulted the clerk, robbed him, etc then sure follow the guy and do what you have to do but the shooter was itching for the confrontation that he was woefully NOT ready for. Yes, he was wearing his "tactical" apparel in public, "operator" sunglasses and firearm, but he wasn't mentally or physically prepared for a guy that did EXACTLY what the other guy did...he said "Go ahead, shoot me tough guy!" The guy called his bluff.

    I have been involved in several bad incidents over the years and trust me when I say that the last thing you want to do is to kill another person...especially an unarmed one over a bag of M&M's.

    If this had happened in NYC, the shooter would have gotten himself indicted. Use your head.

    Let this sink in....he killed a person over a bag of M&M's.
     
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  14. Jump Boot

    Jump Boot

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    Back in the 80's,I took Tia Kwon Do ( I think I even forgot how to spell it) for two years,about 2 times per week at least.I learned just enough to get me killed.Now I am 70 and all that is moot.You have to work at it constantly and improve your skills or it will do you no good.It only takes two weeks to get out of shape.
     
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  15. Leopardtrack

    Leopardtrack

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    Not that I would EVER disagree with ANYTHING that a man who did 2 tours with SF in Vietnam had to say:) but yes, Jump Boot is 1,000% right. You don't just get in shape you STAY in shape, train realistically consistently, and have to above all, maintain the proper mindset, because thats what is going to make you prevail.

    Read "The Book of 5 Rings" by Miamoto Musashi
     
  16. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    No matter how many times I see that video I just cant believe that the goodguy 1. Pulled a gun to begin with and 2. actually shot the guy. Not one "blow".. not one "strike" and the only person with a visible weapon is the good guy. I realize that I am an arm chair critic but there sure seemed to be a whole lot of other options that I would have attempted. What I see is a lumbering schoolyard shoving match, ..my gun would not have been out of the holster. Many have said that this shoot was deemed lawful and if so, I have no beef. The instructor was clearly not looking for any trouble and he did appear to be trying to avoid a fight. I just wouldnt have shot the guy, that's just me.

    This is a good example of how visible firearms are not talismans.

    To answer the OP question: I participated in Korean Karate (Jung Moo Kwan) in the 70's.. ARCON and ground fighting in the 90's and very limited Krav in the early 2000. I have taken bits a pieces from each system and constructed something that works well for me. I am merely a novice but I do have a plan to deal with physical attackers in just about any venue, especially the ground.

    When people ask what I have considered to be most useful, I would have to say ground fighting. I have used those techniques more often than anything else. The ground is where it always ends up and a person better know what to do once you arrive there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
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  17. ROGER4314

    ROGER4314 Friends Call Me "Flash"

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    I was born and raised in Chicago and made some very bad choices. I could have run with the nice/good people but didn't go that way. There were periods of my life that I fought every day.

    I needed some help so I took Korean Karate but bailed out of that. Honestly, I felt that I was being taught how to dance and I will never again PULL a punch or a kick. I wanted to hit HARD! If you aren't spraining your wrists, bruising your knuckles, elbows and forearms, you aren't being trained to fight!

    I tied up with many trained fighters who taught me the hard way. It hurt and I got the crap knocked out of me! The late Matthew C was a brown belt in Judo and taught me how to mop the floor with an opponent. It was full contact and it hurt! His training was put to good use!

    Soon, I figured out how it was done. Most of those "teachers" were brown belts and hadn't picked up the "kool" and service attitude of the black belts. They were cocky and willing to teach me how to hurt someone. It was a hard way to learn, but I scored some one punch knockouts on the street. It worked!

    Getting clean & sober 35 years ago, lessened the frequency of physical conflict on the street, but it still paid off a few times. My fists are like small hams and the last boss I had before retirement called them "The claws of death!"....snicker!

    In October, on my 70th birthday, I swore an oath never to fight with my fists and feet, again. From now on, my LTC pistol will do the fighting for me.

    Lessons learned?
    Don't let anyone teach you to fight with your shoes off. That isn't the way street violence happens.
    If you aren't developing bruises, you aren't hitting hard enough.
    The best defense is a good offense.

    Flash
     
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  18. Pew Pew

    Pew Pew

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    Any martial arts training automatically makes you a mall ninja.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
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  19. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    I agree...
     
  20. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    This is a very good post and I agree with the sentiment. I was not there and I am just a guy on the other side of a computer screen but I would be hard pressed to personally define the badguys action as any sort of real "attack". He was being a jackass and yes, I feel like he could have been arrested for his behavior but gunplay is a whole separate universe.

    As Leopard said: What did this guy really do?..

    not much.. he threw some MM's and pushed some guys a few times.