How many history geeks do we have here?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by jame, Mar 29, 2020.

  1. jame

    jame I don't even know....what I'm doing here....

    Messages:
    8,129
    Likes Received:
    6,561
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2002
    Location:
    Central Iowa
    Who believes that, generally speaking, history repeats itself?

    I’m curious, because this current situation is frequently compared to the 1918 pandemic. Thoughts please?
     
    orangejeep06 and billy_56081 like this.
  2. Lockback

    Lockback Polymerlicious!

    Messages:
    5,338
    Likes Received:
    5,021
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Location:
    Ohio
    I have a degree in history but am by no means an expert on the 1918 flu epidemic.
    Obviously (to me anyway) the biggest changes since then are:
    1) Communication
    2) Transportation

    No commercial airlines in 1918. No jets. No international flights.
    And, of course, no TV, no internet, no social media.
    Both of these factors make this a completely different world today than then.
    To say nothing of the medical advances.
    So those are some quick thoughts off the top of my head ...
     

  3. Gray Dood

    Gray Dood

    Messages:
    4,094
    Likes Received:
    9,216
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    One HUGE difference is the ability to spread total [email protected] information to ignorant masses at literally the push of a button.

    In 1918 people got information much slower and that allowed for more thoughtful processing of that information.
     
  4. jmohme

    jmohme

    Messages:
    10,215
    Likes Received:
    17,940
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Location:
    Bastrop Texas
    You make a very good point.
     
  5. azbuckeye

    azbuckeye

    Messages:
    2,458
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Location:
    In the shade of mesquite tree
    The 1918 Spanish Flu has been estimated to have killed anywhere from 12 million to as high as 50 million worldwide, but due to the lack of adequate reporting we will never know the true numbers. Let's hope COVID19 never reaches those numbers.

    On a related note, as a teenager I worked for a small greenhouse\florist that worked closely with local cemeteries providing seasonal services (graveside floral arrangements etc.). I had the opportunity to meet a old grave digger that dug graves by hand as a young man during the 1918 flu pandemic and he related some horrific stories about bodies that had to be held for burial due to frozen ground in Winter months.
     
    rayzer007 and Lockback like this.
  6. cheygriz

    cheygriz God Bless Trump

    Messages:
    2,927
    Likes Received:
    5,822
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2000
    Location:
    High up in the rockies
    this is nothing compared to 1917.

    Most folks back then thought it was the end of the world.
     
    rayzer007 likes this.
  7. lazarus66

    lazarus66

    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    5,979
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Location:
    Arlington, Texas
    I would keep an eye on those damned Ottomans......
     
    Batesmotel likes this.
  8. roscoepcoaltrain

    roscoepcoaltrain

    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    1,988
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Appalachia
    The majority of those killed by the 1918 influenza pandemic were in their 20's, 30's ,and 40's. Ironically older people had a lower death rate.

    The coronavirus kills mostly older people with underlying health conditions. Younger people seem to handle it better.
     
    billy_56081 likes this.
  9. bdcochran

    bdcochran

    Messages:
    9,879
    Likes Received:
    8,509
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    My grandfather died of it in 1918. I have researched epidemics for years. My sister is a professor who has studied them.

    1. older people had it easier because they had antibodies from an epidemic that blew through in the 1870s.
    2. came in waves over three years like the regular flu.
    3. social distancing was rejected in Philadelphia, resulting in over 1,000 dead per day.
    4. it actually arose around 1/1/18 and not with returning troops from ww1 which ended at the middle of November 1918.
    5. the mistake was taking sick soldiers from the front line, mixing them with wounded soldiers in hospitals and sending both groups back to the front lines.
    6. I want you to imagine young men coming from all corners of the USA and sleeping 40 to a room. They get up early, have new experiences, and are physically exhausted. I am describing basic training in the US Army. You catch every illness from the rest of the country. Now throw into the mix a virus which has not gone through the population and no one has antibodies against - US Army 1918.


    When the politicians are screaming about ventilators, bear in mind that the death rate of critical cases placed on vents is in the range of 70-80%.

    If you rest, keep clean, keep hydrated, receive enough vitamin C and Vitamin D, and perhaps take zinc, you have done the max that you can do at home. For most people, without underlying medical problems, it will be sufficient enough for them to survive.
     
  10. Aurora

    Aurora

    Messages:
    2,325
    Likes Received:
    739
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    This is an excellent post. I'm very interested in alternative medicine and what's written here has great foundations. Worth a second read.

    V.
     
  11. WT

    WT Millennium Member

    Messages:
    5,190
    Likes Received:
    3,967
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 1999
    My grandfather was in the trenches in 1918. His fellow soldiers were in great physical shape when they arrived. Training at Camp Lewis duplicated the conditions in France - long marches, rain, rolling hills, rain, clumps of woods, rain, etc. They were not sick.

    Many soldiers in his regiment were killed and wounded in the Meuse Argonne - 2,500 in a week. The replacement troops brought the Spanish Flu with them and they died by the truckload. The numbers who died of flu were originally kept secret because we did not want the Germans to know our losses.

    Not much has changed in NYC since 1918. Lots of crowds, commuting by subway and buses, many travelers through the port, many immigrants living in horrid conditions with no access to medical care, poor food, etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
    billy_56081 likes this.
  12. Nemesis.

    Nemesis.

    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    4,545
    Joined:
    May 13, 2010
    Caver 60 likes this.
  13. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

    Messages:
    8,219
    Likes Received:
    14,126
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Nowhere near the same class. People are mildly inconvenienced in this country for the first time in decades and they are loosing their minds.

    Even 9/11 wasn’t a big nation wide impact for any non-military families.

    We haven’t had a real problem in this country since the 60’s/70’s.
     
  14. cityborncountrylivin

    cityborncountrylivin

    Messages:
    1,340
    Likes Received:
    1,808
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    I wrote a paper in college on the 1918 Pandemic. My thesis was that the flu ended the war. We ended the draft before the war ended because we were losing so many in boot camp.
     
    rayzer007 and Lockback like this.
  15. PlayerOne

    PlayerOne

    Messages:
    706
    Likes Received:
    1,134
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    History doesn't repeat itself, but sometimes it rhymes.
     
    billkill likes this.
  16. PlayerOne

    PlayerOne

    Messages:
    706
    Likes Received:
    1,134
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Yeah, the slow propagation of information really saved those millions of souls...
     
  17. jame

    jame I don't even know....what I'm doing here....

    Messages:
    8,129
    Likes Received:
    6,561
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2002
    Location:
    Central Iowa
    From these 14 posts so far, I’ve chosen you because you’ve obviously done some research.

    Could you please share the economic conditions following the end of the1918 pandemic?
     
  18. texmex

    texmex

    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    1,578
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Location:
    Central Texas
    My first wife's grandfather was a submariner in ww1. Diesel engine mechanic/engineer. He was at New London, Connecticut when the flu struck. He said one day there were about 10 people going to the infirmary sick. The next day there were a couple of dozen. Soon thereafter, almost everyone on the base was sick. He was in a ward in the hospital with rows of sailors in bunks. The guys on each side of him both died. He was born in 1890 and passed away in 1981.
     
    NMG26 and FullClip like this.
  19. JArthurD

    JArthurD Silver Member

    Messages:
    5,860
    Likes Received:
    16,557
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    Location:
    Manassas, Va
    History repeats itself. However, believing all history will be repeated is an inclusionary fallacy.

    The Second World War was not repetition of the first one,
    -merely a continuation of it.

    Details, like the advent of modern medicine and knowledge is key to understanding how, when an if, a historical event is likely to repeat itself.

    One more thing that can never be factored is the will and hand of God. -Which cannot be known or predicted.
     
    cheygriz and Caver 60 like this.
  20. IamtheNRA

    IamtheNRA

    Messages:
    10,561
    Likes Received:
    16,098
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2001
    Location:
    Tampa, FL USA
    Who is this "God" of which you speak?
     
    OGW likes this.