[OregonG20]

I seem to be coming across a lot of claimed velocities by companies that don't seem to be true. I see this guy has created a spreadsheet of 10mm ammo fired through a stock Glock. As you can see, many companies don't actually hit what they claim. I understand that most companies will test their ammo with a 5 inch barrel, vs. the 4.6 inch barrel that comes in a Glock 20, but some of these differences are far more than .4 inches would make.

So, is the list of ammo makers that don't lie, shorter than the list of those that do? Is it a 10mm only thing? Does it happen with most of your more powerful pistol cartridges, or is it just any cartridge?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak5OC6bPsjO8dEh6eGZ3N3hpUU13SXM5cm9pZy16T0E&hl=en#gid=0

 

[TreyG-20]

i would assume most since thats one of the main things people look for

 

[cowboywannabe]

in 10mm it seems all do except Hornandy (light to mid power), Buffalo Bore, and Swamp Fox (both full power).

Cor-Bon makes good and expensive ammo but their 10mm is loaded little more than their .40cal. not really worth consideration to me.

Double Tap has been outted so many times on youtube since they reduced their velocities from a gun but kept them high on their boxes.

 

[21Carrier]

I think almost all 10mm ammo manufacturers lie. Yes, LIE! This is not a simple mistake, this is LYING for market share. Double Tap is the worst. I have seen their ammo fail to make rating by 150-200fps several times. That's insane. I think the only 10mm ammo companies that really come close to, or make, their claims are Swamp Fox, Buffalo Bore, and Hornady. While I think a little bit of this "fuzzy math" or "fudging" takes place with other calibers as well, I think 10mm gets most of it. I think it's because 10mm shooters WANT the most velocity and power. If you're searching for hot 10mm ammo, velocity is what sells, more so than other calibers.

Personally, I wouldn't send a dime to Double Tap. I think what they do is so atrocious, I ALMOST feel like starting an internet boycott campaign against them. The only reason I don't is that Mike McNett truly deserves a lot of credit for keeping hot 10mm ammo alive through the last decade. However, there's absolutely NO excuse for lying to your customers like he does. If the ammo was 50fps short, that would be too much, but almost forgivable. But 150-200fps?! That was the case when a GT member here tested a few of his loads a month or two back. The 135gr Nosler, rated at 1600fps from a G20, did 1460 out of a G20. Then, another load missed the mark by around 200fps. That's inexcusable. Of course, there was also the whole bullet substitution debacle where he sent Montana Golds to customers that paid for Gold Dots. Again, inexcusable. Sorry for the rant.

 

[OregonG20]

I think almost all 10mm ammo manufacturers lie. Yes, LIE! This is not a simple mistake, this is LYING for market share. Double Tap is the worst. I have seen their ammo fail to make rating by 150-200fps several times. That's insane. I think the only 10mm ammo companies that really come close to, or make, their claims are Swamp Fox, Buffalo Bore, and Hornady. While I think a little bit of this "fuzzy math" or "fudging" takes place with other calibers as well, I think 10mm gets most of it. I think it's because 10mm shooters WANT the most velocity and power. If you're searching for hot 10mm ammo, velocity is what sells, more so than other calibers.

Personally, I wouldn't send a dime to Double Tap. I think what they do is so atrocious, I ALMOST feel like starting an internet boycott campaign against them. The only reason I don't is that Mike McNett truly deserves a lot of credit for keeping hot 10mm ammo alive through the last decade. However, there's absolutely NO excuse for lying to your customers like he does. If the ammo was 50fps short, that would be too much, but almost forgivable. But 150-200fps?! That was the case when a GT member here tested a few of his loads a month or two back. The 135gr Nosler, rated at 1600fps from a G20, did 1460 out of a G20. Then, another load missed the mark by around 200fps. That's inexcusable. Of course, there was also the whole bullet substitution debacle where he sent Montana Golds to customers that paid for Gold Dots. Again, inexcusable. Sorry for the rant.

That's not a rant, it was exactly the answer I like to hear. I noticed that Winchester seems to lie quite a bit about actual velocity. It makes me wonder a person is getting themselves into if they go handgun hunting for bear or hog, assuming that their load is capable of doing this, when it really may not be.

I'd hate to be firing a Winchester Platinum tip in .41 Mag rated for 833 ft/lbs of energy at dangerous game, say a black bear, only to be getting lied to by 150 FPS and the energy is only 650 lb/ft. Could get nasty in a hurry.

 

[ModGlock17]

I'd hate to be firing a Winchester Platinum tip in .41 Mag rated for 833 ft/lbs of energy at dangerous game, say a black bear, only to be getting lied to by 150 FPS and the energy is only 650 lb/ft. Could get nasty in a hurry.

If that happens, since there are many other issues in question, like the shooter's ability (accuracy) in placing a shot, that you can't prove it's their fault. They know that.

 

[OregonG20]

If that happens, since there are many other issues in question, like the shooter's ability (accuracy) in placing a shot, that you can't prove it's their fault. They know that.

I'm positive they know that, but I'm not talking about liability, just ethics, really. I just think it could be a *****ty place to find yourself, trusting a manufacturer with a name like Winchester, only to be lied to when it could matter most.

Sad.

 

[Jitterbug]

For what it's worth I clocked a Georgia Arms load from my 4.25" barrel, it was rated at 1150 fps, I got 1175 fps.

4 year old Georgia Arms 180 grain Gold Dot +P. I know there is no 10mm plus P, but this is what's on the label.

 

[Kegs]

Most of the ammo makers overstate their velocities.

The only one that I have tested and found similar results to the box label was Buffalo Bore.

 

[rcd567]

Has anyone contact Mike McNett about the differences in velocity? I know there are several variables such as altitude, barometric pressure, temperature, wind, ect.

What does he have to say? It seems Double Tap Ammo played a major part in bringing the 10mm back to life. Just curious.

 

[nickE10mm]

Has anyone contact Mike McNett about the differences in velocity? I know there are several variables such as altitude, barometric pressure, temperature, wind, ect.

What does he have to say? It seems Double Tap Ammo played a major part in bringing the 10mm back to life. Just curious.

People have tried to contact him but, AFAIK, nobody's been able to get anything back from him on the forum. I'm sure you could call but I doubt anyone has done that.

As for certain "variables" changing velocities, yes, I believe that's possible, but not to the degree we're seeing. I can see 15fps, not 150-250fps differences...

If Buffalo Bore and Swamp Fox can do it, why can't DT?

 

[TriggerFinger]

If the ammo was 50fps short, that would be too much, but almost forgivable. But 150-200fps?!

Double Taps are consistantly off by that much.

What your excuse Mike?

I HATE dishonest businesses. Apparently Double Tap takes the crown for that.

 

[arushus]

EVERY test Ive seen done shows that every manufacturer lies about their velocities, except SWAMPFOX!!! Even buffalo bore didnt measure up by 100-150fps in the tests Ive seen, having never tested buffalo bore myself, I wont badmouth it too bad since everyone else here seems to like them and says they are reputable. However, if I was going to spend money on 10mm ammo, it would ONLY BE WITH SWAMPFOX. For plinking and target practice purposes, I just buy a box of .40cal WWB from walmart and put my conversion barrel in my G20sf and do work!

P.S. I have seen and heard very good things about Georgia Arms ammo, Ive only run 50 rounds through my gun, but they do seem to always measure up to their stated velocities as well!

 

[OregonG20]

EVERY test Ive seen done shows that every manufacturer lies about their velocities, except SWAMPFOX!!! Even buffalo bore didnt measure up by 100-150fps in the tests Ive seen, having never tested buffalo bore myself, I wont badmouth it too bad since everyone else here seems to like them and says they are reputable. However, if I was going to spend money on 10mm ammo, it would ONLY BE WITH SWAMPFOX. For plinking and target practice purposes, I just buy a box of .40cal WWB from walmart and put my conversion barrel in my G20sf and do work!

P.S. I have seen and heard very good things about Georgia Arms ammo, Ive only run 50 rounds through my gun, but they do seem to always measure up to their stated velocities as well!

I think Hornady matches up as well. But swampfox definitely proves it.

 

[arushus]

Im hearing good things about hornady also...but didnt that guy with the spreadsheet of velocities do some testing on hornady bullets?

 

[nickE10mm]

Im hearing good things about hornady also...but didnt that guy with the spreadsheet of velocities do some testing on hornady bullets?

"That guy" could be 21Carrier, although I've seen several spreadsheets with velocities on this forum in the last few years. IIRC, the results of the Hornady factory stuff WAS, in fact, pretty close to boxflap, yes. My experience has been good with Hornady although they aren't true full power... they are a solid medium power 10mm load.

 

[drsjr1969]

I seem to be coming across a lot of claimed velocities by companies that don't seem to be true. I see this guy has created a spreadsheet of 10mm ammo fired through a stock Glock. As you can see, many companies don't actually hit what they claim. I understand that most companies will test their ammo with a 5 inch barrel, vs. the 4.6 inch barrel that comes in a Glock 20, but some of these differences are far more than .4 inches would make.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak5OC6bPsjO8dEh6eGZ3N3hpUU13SXM5cm9pZy16T0E&hl=en#gid=0

That list is actually a collaboration of 2 different parties and 2 different pistols.

I am one of those parties who has tested the majority of rounds on that list.

I have my list separate on Facebook on a page named "10mm ammo"
http://www.facebook.com/pages/10mm-ammo/188837037856507

also you can find my videos on youtube just search 10mm ammo test.
I am Drsjr1969 there.

 

[arushus]

it wasnt 21c to whom I was referring...it was the gentleman above me ^^^^

 

[jeager]

Aren't rounds tested in closed-bolt platforms rather than a Pistol or Revolver?
That would easily account for the discrepancy.

 

[bac1023]

I would say many, if not most companies do.