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How EXACTLY did Hamas SEE this going?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by tslex, Nov 16, 2012.

  1. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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  2. Lior

    Lior GUNS=FREEDOM

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    More about Israel's inhuman raid into the Gaza Strip:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo"]Goldstone Gaza Report: Col. Richard Kemp Testifies at U.N. Emergency Session - YouTube[/ame]
     

  3. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    I think the Iron Dome is scaring the crap out of the other mid-east countries.

    Hamas is claiming less than a 50% success rate for Iron Dome. But, read into it a little more. It is seems like almost 100% right now. The system targets trajectories and doesn't fire on rockets that wont hit anything. It seems they have near a 100% hit rate on rockets with dangerous trajectories.

    If I was Iran, I would be crapping my pants about now. It shows their missiles probably have very limited strike capability on Israel. However, I think this may actually make the situation worse. When dealing with nut jobs like Iran, their logical conclusion will be that they need a nuke even more since that might be their only chance of penetrating Iron dome.
     
  4. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    I didnt watch your link as my internet is not fast enough.

    But, let me ask you a question. You find some UFC fighter. You walk up to him. Punch him in the nose. No reaction. You kick him in the shin. No reaction. You bite his ear. He pushes you away and asks you to stop. You grab his junk. He punches you in the face and knocks you out. Maybe you pushed him too far?
     
  5. JMS

    JMS 02

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    You do realize that the whole land for peace was never intended to be honored by the Palestinians, etc it is an attempt to obtain more and more land. Gaza was given to them and there hasn't been one day of peace. Israel could give them 99% of the land for peace and there still wouldn't be until Israel ceased to exist.

    I understand the situation is hard to decipher when your only stream of information is the left leaning main stream media, the same media who show the fighting between Hamas and Israel as David vs. Goliath, they forgot to tell you David is equally armed as we see with their 8 year missile campaign of aggression against Israeli civilians, it seems for the first time that the world is seeing the Palestinians true colors.
     
  6. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    You like accuse, but didnt read the article.

    "What is clear, however, is that Arafat had voided his pledge to resolve future conflict with Israel at the negotiating table."

    "Most Israelis view their experience of land-for-peace in the same fashion that Native Americans consider their experience with the concept."

    Did you actually read the link? It talks about how the Palestinian side has never intended to follow through with the land for peace deal.

    This doesnt seem like an article manipulated by the "left leaning main stream media"
     
  7. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    I am watching BBC. They just interviews the IDF spokesman.

    WOW. The guy had some balls (in a good way). The BBC news guy asked about Israels "disproportionate response".

    The Israeli spokesman said, well, when Germans were bombing London, you were not worried about a disproportionate response against Germany and not killing civilians.

    The BBC guy had a long pause and then asked his final question. It was clear that that direct of a response was not expected.

    His final question was how to stop this.

    The IDF spokesman had a simple solution. He said, quit firing rockets at Israeli civilians and it will stop.
     
  8. Louisville Glocker

    Louisville Glocker Urban Redneck

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    Actually, it was 69 percent. http://www.haaretz.com/news/u-s-ele...obama-wins-69-of-jewish-vote.premium-1.475889

    It is tough to generalize, because you've got a wide range of people, from Orthodox to far left, but from most of the Jews I've known (mostly Chicagoland) they're socially liberal and fiscally conservative. They care about Israel, but are upset about the treatment of the Palestinians. Even the population in Israel is pretty split about what to do in Gaza.
     
  9. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

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    Nice post. Interesting that so many hold Israel to one standard and the rest of the region to another. I assure you that many on this forum would not have the level of restraint that Israel has shown, nor take on the risks that Israel has assumed in the interest of protecting civilians that are intentionally being used by the enemy as shields. In addition, these are mostly civilians that support the terrorist actions against Israel and view Israelis as something less than dogs.

    Israel has quite a challenge ahead. If they commit to ground actions in Gaza, they will face a better equipped enemy than what they've seen in the past. In addition, I'm sure they are thinking...'what a convenient distraction from Iran'. It just so happens that this is escalating when Iran is less than a year away from being at the point of no return on a nuclear weapon (i.e., crossing Israel's red line).

    I was puzzled as to why the Obama administration is supportive of Israel here when they have not been in the past. Then I was thinking of the old Ali "rope a dope". Draw Israel into a conflict intentionally. Meanwhile, Iran is freed up to finish their work...which is back to being consistent with this administration's behavior.
     
  10. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

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    Obama has said what is politically expedient.

    Regards,
    Comrade Happyguy :)
     
  11. Louisville Glocker

    Louisville Glocker Urban Redneck

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    Sorry, but I'm a numbers guy. People have different opinions, but facts are simpler than the way people like to spin things.

    Simply take a look at the last Israeli "operation" (as usual, it is really a slaughter. Palestinians killed 9 Israelis total - only 3 civilians, whereas Israeli killed 773 civilians. Disproportionate force and Collective punishment are both War Crimes, as written into International Law by US authors after WWII)

    Sorry the formatting sucks. Here is the original tables, but you can get the idea pretty easily. http://www.btselem.org/download/20090909_cast_lead_fatalities_eng.pdf

    Israeli security forces killed 1,387 Palestinians during the operation. The breakdown is as
    follows:

    Did not take part in the hostilities 773
    Of them, women (over 18) 107
    Of them, minor boys & girls (under 18) 320
    Took part in the hostilities
    330 2
    Women 0
    Minors 19
    Police officers killed at police stations 248
    Unknown if took part in the hostilities 36
    Women 0
    Minors 6
    Total 1387
    Minors killed who did not take part in the hostilities, by age and gender
    Age Total Boys Girls
    Under 6 60 33 27
    Under 11 119 68 51
    Under 17 290 195 95
    Under 18 320 221 99
    Adults killed who did not take part in the hostilities, by age and gender
    Total Age Men Women
    18-29 141 176 35
    30-39 55 74 19
    40-49 69 90 21
    Over 50 81 113 32
    Israeli fatalities (all figures relate to the Gaza Strip and southern Israel during
    the period 27 December 2008 to 18 January 2009)
    During the operation, Palestinians killed nine Israelis, as follows:
     Three civilians, who were killed by Qassam and Grad rocket fire
     Six members of the security forces
    In addition, four soldiers were killed by friendly fire. 3
    P
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  12. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

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    1. What is the source of your numbers?

    2. Sounds like Hamas should spend more money on social services and less on rockets.

    Regards,
    Comrade Happyguy :)
     
  13. dbcooper

    dbcooper

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    I love the fact that groups are meeting in Egypt to work out a cease fire, it should be real simple.

    Hey Hamas, if you stop shelling they won't backhand you like a pimp does a mouthy ho. Then you backhand the Hamas rep to help it sink in.
     
  14. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

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    Unfortunately, analysis purely based on numbers is ignorant. It fails to account for tactics used by Hamas. When the enemy intentionally puts their civilians in harms way, more civilians die.
     
  15. Lior

    Lior GUNS=FREEDOM

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    Of course the Hamas are trying to capitalize on deaths on their side, as they have done previously. But they don't care about their own lives - it's just good PR for them. In the words of or Ms. Livni: the Hamas is using its own people as live body armor. Enjoy the double standard of Muslim countries around the whole thing. Hundreds of airstrikes resulting in a few dozen deaths is a miracle IMO.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  16. ateamer

    ateamer NRA4EVR

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    In 1945, we killed a few hundred thousand Japanese civilians with firebombing and nukes. Do you numbers and stats guys have the same outrage about that? I don't see any problem with overwhelming payback. This isn't two guys fighting in a parking lot over a girl. This is one country fighting to be kept from extinction.
     
  17. dbcooper

    dbcooper

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    The doctrine of proportional response is a perfect way to lose a war. If they kill one of yours you kill 1000 of thiers.
     
  18. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

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    You guys ought to read a book called "The Haj" by Leon Uris. I'm sure Lior doesn't need to do so in order to have an understanding of the mentality there. However it's a good book that demonstrates the mentality of the individuals in that region.
     
  19. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    You know I'm a numbers guy too. You're using numbers to spin an agenda. The numbers you quote don't tell a story, they're just numbers.

    The facts are 1) the land has belonged to enough people over the last five thousand years that it's simply not possible to say who it "should" belong to 2) Palestinians have been screwed by every side, including Britain, but especially by other Arab nations and 3) Israel has tanks and a first-rate air force now, but it didn't always--it wasn't too long ago that the IDF was using leftover WWII equipment to fight off six nations at once. No one complained about "disproportionate" response then.
     
  20. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

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    Lior - just curious since you're there. Is there any discussion about this being used as a possible distraction from Iran?