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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I was never formally trained in how to shoot a hand gun. When I was in the Army I was taught how to squeeze the trigger on a rifle (M1). I was told to gently squeeze my entire hand and when the weapon goes off it should come as a surprise to me. I paid close attention and did as I was taught. I was one of the better shots in my company.

When I bought my first serious hand gun, a Glock, I attempted to apply the same principles that I used on a rifle to my Glock hand gun. I'm on my third Glock a G-29 and I have probable fired well over 1500 rounds in the past few years since I started to carry and practice a couple times a week. I have been unhappy with how long it takes me to acquire a target and how accurate my pattern grouping is. I have been experimenting with various way to improve my time to fire and my accuracy. I have my a private pistol range on my own property. I tend to load 15 rounds and walk down to my range, shoot all 15 rounds, look at the results and think about what I'm doing wrong. It may be a day or two before I shoot again.

Today I tried something new and my shooting improved drastically! I always hold the gun firmly, but today I only pulled with my index fingers. I did not squeeze any harder with my thumb or other three finger that wrapped around the pistol grip. I have my index finger on my left hand on the outside of front side of the Glocks trigger guard and just think about squeezing both index fingers at the same time with equal smooth force. The pad of my finger is on the trigger. My group size has dropped to a third of what it has been. Was this a fluke or I have I discovered something!?!? I have been squeezing with two index fingers for a long time. The thing that is new is simply not increasing the pressure on the rest of my fingers as I pull both my index fingers. It works for me. I'm here to learn.

BTW, today I was firing 10mm FMJ out of my Glock 29 as shown in my Avatar.
 

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By the way - you should probably have your post moved to general firearms.

"Gun Control" in this section is the political/law form of "gun control" - not how to shoot (control) a firearm.




Never heard of squeezing the entire hand for shooting anything - all modern instruction is to avoid squeezing the entire hand for shooting anything. The commonly accepted terminology is now even different than "squeezing".

I think the idea behind "squeezing" was to keep people from "jerking" or "slapping" the trigger - but "squeezing" implies curling the fingers like squeezing a wet rag or lemon - which is NOT the idea.

Now the commonly accepted terminology is "press" - as in "straight back". In slower paced shooting, a "surprise break" is still [pretty much] taught and desired.

For both rifle and pistol your trigger finger should have a gap, or "daylight" between the frame and the finger. For rifle and semi-auto pistol, the center of the pad of the finger should contact the trigger. For DA revolver, many/most people do not have enough finger strength to pull the trigger while keeping the gun movement minimal (steady sight picture) - so contacting the trigger at the first joint, for more leverage, is commonly accepted.

NRA teaches five (5) basic steps to shooting a gun:

1. Position (For pistol: a proper two handed grip and isosceles/modified isosceles stance)

2. Breath Control (More important for rifle than pistol, relaxed inhale - relaxed mid-exhale (don't "hold") - shoot - exhale fully - repeat)

3. Aim - Sight Alignment

4. Trigger Press - (Pad of finger, finger clear of stock, increase pressure straight back, surprise break)

5. Follow Through - (Watch sight, don't close eyes, keep trigger back with finger on trigger, reduce pressure on trigger until reset - you finger should never leave the face of the trigger unless you a finished engaging the target)​

Increasing pressure by any fingers other than the trigger finger is going to disturb the sight picture and sight tracking.
 

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I hold the trigger down, and fan the hammer. Just kidding. Squeeze with my index.
 
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I work really hard at not flinching.
Ideally, The only thing that moves when I fire is my trigger finger. Like you said, if the gun surprises me, I've done my job.

Here's a slideshow with two 25 round groups I put up on Monday with my Glock 20 and Glock 29.
http://chronosscifi.com/targetSlideShow.html

Here's a page I'm working on about my tendency to squeeze my Glock 29 too tight. This Monday, I used an XGrip sleeve on a Glock 20 magazine and that helped me immensely.
http://chronosscifi.com/healingHeeling.html
 
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Next time at the range, try shooting your Glock "from reset". After your first shot, do not release the trigger. When you've reacquired the target, let the trigger come forward just enough that you hear/feel the click of it resetting. Then apply pressure (just the trigger finger) to fire the next shot.
 

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Next time at the range, try shooting your Glock "from reset". After your first shot, do not release the trigger. When you've reacquired the target, let the trigger come forward just enough that you hear/feel the click of it resetting. Then apply pressure (just the trigger finger) to fire the next shot.

You know you're doing this right when you get unexpected doubles and they land damn near in the same hole.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I work really hard at not flinching.
Ideally, The only thing that moves when I fire is my trigger finger. Like you said, if the gun surprises me, I've done my job.

Here's a slideshow with two 25 round groups I put up on Monday with my Glock 20 and Glock 29.
http://chronosscifi.com/targetSlideShow.html

Here's a page I'm working on about my tendency to squeeze my Glock 29 too tight. This Monday, I used an XGrip sleeve on a Glock 20 magazine and that helped me immensely.
http://chronosscifi.com/healingHeeling.html
I fairly good at not flinching. I might flinch twice out of 15 rounds. I can feel myself flinch as soon as I do it and know that I missed. My favorite targets are two 10 inch gongs 12 yards away. I'll attach a photo. Today as soon as I decided to just pull with my index fingers, I hit that red heart dead center. I then hit the one on the left three times in a row. I have not done any trigger work on my Glock 29. I think it's safer to leave the trigger as is.

As you can see I also use an XGrip and Glock 20 magazines. I use Trijicon RMR on all three of my Glocks. My current technique is to put the front sight on the target. The red dot then comes into view in a fraction of a second. Because of hand shake the red dot jumps all around the center of the target I pull the trigger if it's anywhere near the center. I have a good friend who like to shoot the center out of playing cards with the gun on a rest. To me that's pointless. The reason I practice it to prepare for self defense that I hope is never needed.

I have hear others talk about developing muscle memory and shooting instinctively. I'm no wear near being able to do that! I can put the front sight on my targets in under a second. In a panic mode I think I would pull the trigger as soon as I see the front sight on the target and hope the red dot comes into view.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
By the way - you should probably have your post moved to general firearms.

"Gun Control" in this section is the political/law form of "gun control" - not how to shoot (control) a firearm.




Never heard of squeezing the entire hand for shooting anything - all modern instruction is to avoid squeezing the entire hand for shooting anything. The commonly accepted terminology is now even different than "squeezing".

I think the idea behind "squeezing" was to keep people from "jerking" or "slapping" the trigger - but "squeezing" implies curling the fingers like squeezing a wet rag or lemon - which is NOT the idea.

Now the commonly accepted terminology is "press" - as in "straight back". In slower paced shooting, a "surprise break" is still [pretty much] taught and desired.

For both rifle and pistol your trigger finger should have a gap, or "daylight" between the frame and the finger. For rifle and semi-auto pistol, the center of the pad of the finger should contact the trigger. For DA revolver, many/most people do not have enough finger strength to pull the trigger while keeping the gun movement minimal (steady sight picture) - so contacting the trigger at the first joint, for more leverage, is commonly accepted.

NRA teaches five (5) basic steps to shooting a gun:

1. Position (For pistol: a proper two handed grip and isosceles/modified isosceles stance)

2. Breath Control (More important for rifle than pistol, relaxed inhale - relaxed mid-exhale (don't "hold") - shoot - exhale fully - repeat)

3. Aim - Sight Alignment

4. Trigger Press - (Pad of finger, finger clear of stock, increase pressure straight back, surprise break)

5. Follow Through - (Watch sight, don't close eyes, keep trigger back with finger on trigger, reduce pressure on trigger until reset - you finger should never leave the face of the trigger unless you a finished engaging the target)​

Increasing pressure by any fingers other than the trigger finger is going to disturb the sight picture and sight tracking.
I apologize for posting this is the wrong place. The good news is that my question as already been answered. I'm embarrassed by how long I have been improperly squeezing the grip. Now I'll work on breaking the bad habit.

Thank you for the above 5 tips.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

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By the way - you should probably have your post moved to general firearms.

"Gun Control" in this section is the political/law form of "gun control" - not how to shoot (control) a firearm.
Not if you believe that bumper sticker.


As you can see I also use an XGrip and Glock 20 magazines.
I just noticed your avatar. The Pachmayr grip sleeve worked pretty good for me, but I think I prefer the XGrip. Fortunately, more testing is required.

I fairly good at not flinching. I might flinch twice out of 15 rounds. I can feel myself flinch as soon as I do it and know that I missed.
I still like to put a spent case into one cylinder of a revolver and live ammunition in the others. Give the cylinder a spin and when you pull the trigger on that empty cylinder, any flinch you have is blaring. It's pretty funny when you catch yourself too.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Not if you believe that bumper sticker.



I just noticed your avatar. The Pachmayr grip sleeve worked pretty good for me, but I think I prefer the XGrip. Fortunately, more testing is required.


I still like to put a spent case into one cylinder of a revolver and live ammunition in the others. Give the cylinder a spin and when you pull the trigger on that empty cylinder, any flinch you have is blaring. It's pretty funny when you catch yourself too.
When I went through basic training in the army we would fire our rifles from a laying down position. An exercise to find out if we were flinching was to have someone else feed the ammo into the breach where we turned our head so we could not see what they were doing. A penny would be balanced on the on the bayonet attachment. Of course the penny would fall off every time a live round exploded. The idea was slip an occasional dead/spent round among the live rounds. I recall once pulling the trigger hearing the click and the penny was still balanced on the end of the barrel. The guy feeding the ammo into my M1 exclaimed, "Damn, you really do not flinch!" Life's little victories. :) This is the same idea that you are talking about with a revolver and one spent case.

I like the bumper sticker but would never put one on my car because it defeats the idea of concealed carry.

I don't know how to request that this tread/topic be moved to general firearms or the proper place. Perhaps someone could tell me how to do that?

We are fortunate to have the second amendment in the USA. Owning a private hand gun is a strange concept in European counties I have visited. But I digress, and I'm now talking about the proper topic!
:blondmoment::threadmoved:if I knew how. (I'm working on it)
 

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I don't know how to request that this tread/topic be moved to general firearms or the proper place. Perhaps someone could tell me how to do that?
Just abandon the thread.
Go to the forum you want to put it in and start a new one.
Come back to this one and put in a link to the new thread.

I like the bumper sticker but would never put one on my car because it defeats the idea of concealed carry.
I don't do anything that gets the attention of the anti gunners.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Just abandon the thread.
Go to the forum you want to put it in and start a new one.
Come back to this one and put in a link to the new thread.


I don't do anything that gets the attention of the anti gunners.
Thank you. I would do that, except all you kind friends have all ready answered my question. There is no need to ask it again elsewhere. :dancingbanana::snoopy:

I do not believe that open carry is a good idea. A friend told me a story where a friend of his was a carrying a nice new gun in an open carry manner. Someone walked up to him and asked is that a "such a such gun" when he responded yes. The stranger pointed a gun at him and said, I always wanted a gun like that; I'll take yours, and did! :devildance:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Thank you! Thanks for showing me some concepts that I have never seen before. I'll view these clips a few more times and try to do this on my home firing range. I wish I could shoot as fast and accurate as either one of those guys.

It looks to me that these guys were much closer to their targets than I typically shoot. My targets are 12 yards from me. I shoot at steel targets and must keep back from back splatter.

I think I would benefit from hands on, one on one, training training from an expert marksmen.

I wish I knew a retired cop that I could pay to teach me. Come to think of it, there is a police firing range just a few miles from my house. When I go to the post office I can hear them shooting. Maybe I should go there and and see if I can make a deal.

I must point out that my groups have gotten much tighter and my speed has greatly improved since I started this thread and follow the advice I have been getting.:50cal:

I'm attaching a photo of my home firing range.
Soil Tree Land lot Recreation Shooting range


Thanks to whoever moved this thread to the proper place.:cheerleader:
 

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I just pull it and never ride a reset. That's just me.
 

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^^^
Clocks are pretty easy to shoot from the reset. I couldn't even find the reset on my dad's .22 Browning Buckmark today. It was really messing me up until I just forgot about it and concentrated on my aim. When I went back to shooting my carry gun I was a lot more accurate with it than I had been earlier today. Maybe I'll pick up a .22 pistol this Summer. I forgot how fun they are to shoot. The best way to get good at shooting is to shoot a lot, and .22 ammo is a lot cheaper.
 
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