How are Sigs firing without the trigger being pulled?

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by Gnocchi, Sep 20, 2020.

  1. checkyoursix

    checkyoursix

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    Unlike the company that made it apparently.
     
  2. Colt38SuperDude

    Colt38SuperDude

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    The company that made it is still operating since 1855.

    for those who are too lazy to do arithmetic, that’s 165-years of making high quality American guns for the World.
     
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  3. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26

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    Goofed? As in past tense?

    "Moving forward to 2020, there have been several incidents of the P320 discharging while in a holster without being dropped. Sig Sauer’s lawyer had to make quite a few of these known during discovery and you can read all about them in the lawsuit (which will be linked at the end). One of these incidents was even record on an officer’s body camera while getting out of his vehicle for a traffic stop.

    This is all supporting evidence for Kyle Guay’s case which states his gun randomly discharged as he was taking it (while holstered) off of his body.

    In the lawsuit the Guay’s lawyer has cited that one of the potential issues with the design is that the striker sear isn’t adequately holding the striker in place. The following is what Major Peter J. Villani (a certified Sig Sauer armorer) of the Veteran Affairs police said after Frank J. Kneski’s (a Veteran Affairs police officer) discharged while holstered, a case cited in the lawsuit:

    “After reviewing the Officer’s sidearm, it was noted that the P-320 came from Sig Sauerto the distributor prior to the point of sale already with the “upgrade” completed. The sidearm had approximately 100 rounds through it since purchased.
    Upon further examination of the internal parts of the frame module, I noticed that the foot
    of the striker that catches the [sear] has noticeable side to side and up and down
    movement within its channel along with upward movement of the slide from the frame.
    Also, the edge of the striker foot which has a height thickness of approximately 2mm, is
    only making contact with approximately .25 of a mm of the leading edge only of the
    disconnector hook. Since the striker has been changed with a lighter weight version
    during the “upgrade program”, it is quite possible that any abrupt movement or twisting
    of the P-320 while holstered, could cause the foot of the striker to disengage itself from
    the disconnector hook on its own since there is so little contact between the striker foot
    and the [sear].”

    Link to the lawsuit PDF
    https://bit.ly/31kjuVK

    http://www.taccat.ninja/2020/08/05/sig-sauer-usa-p320-lawsuit-2020/ "
     
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  4. checkyoursix

    checkyoursix

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    Lazy as I am, I knew that. I was referring - in jest, don't worry - to their recurring runs in bankruptcy court.
     
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  5. Colt38SuperDude

    Colt38SuperDude

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    Bankruptcy is a Colt tradition started with Sam Colt himself.
     
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  6. Master Guns

    Master Guns

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    And this post is fake news. Don’t be lying on here to pass a false narrative. They were returned for a Completely different reason. Stay off of CNN. It’s making you BS on the GT now.
     
  7. Master Guns

    Master Guns

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    You know. Some guys have to straight up lie about Sig. Thank you for calling him out.
     
  8. Master Guns

    Master Guns

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    With so many Colt 1911 copies around then the chance of getting a crap gun are high.
     
  9. Master Guns

    Master Guns

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    A copy of an HK P70 you mean..lol
     
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  10. xTerpx

    xTerpx Preferred Pronouns: (It, Ya'll, Bruh)

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  11. Master Guns

    Master Guns

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    Quoting an anti gun liberal wasn't the best idea I’ve seen. Come on. Put some effort into it next time
     
  12. MrS&W

    MrS&W

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    Anti gun liberal? Huh?
     
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  13. Will Beararms

    Will Beararms Millennium Member

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    HK set the bar for Glock. HK made the Polymer bar.
     
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  14. Master Guns

    Master Guns

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    Johnny Depp is an anti gun liberal.. how do you not know that..
     
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  15. xTerpx

    xTerpx Preferred Pronouns: (It, Ya'll, Bruh)

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    He probably owns more guns than you do.
     
  16. Webologist

    Webologist

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    That would help them get off at least one shot before surrendering, as they drop their gun to raise their hands.

    That said, OP, this is old news with lots of debates & recalls occurring since it was newsworthy...
     
  17. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    That's the rub though, it isn't old news. Law suits filed just this year on the same issue. Linked a page or so ago and interesting reading. And the other rub is that there were no actual recalls but 'voluntary' upgrades i.e. Sig knows there is an issue but doesn't want to admit an issue but is willing to fix something that isn't an issue to avoid it becoming more of an issue.
     
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  18. boilergonzo

    boilergonzo

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    Thanks for the link. Guns going off in the holster without being touched is not a new thing. Ask Glock for tales of this. The question is the reality. Remember recently the ND at a school with a P320 that was "not touched" and "just went off". That officer was fired, because video evidence showed the statements were untrue.

    What is and is not true, I cannot tell, and we will need to see which ones are found to be credible. A few in that suit do appear to be verifiable. Right now, we have accusations from a group that makes money making accusations. With experts paid by the ones getting paid to make accusations. I am not saying it isn't true. But it is hard to tell how widespread it is from many of those reports lacking supporting facts.

    But Glock has a lawsuit in Arizona blazing with proof that Glock's in many calibers are unsafe and "Kaboom". That doesn't make me scared of my G20 and G22 (both included in the "unsafe gun" category. I don't own a SIG P320, so I don't have a horse in this race, but I do know that legal accusations are often proven to lack merit.

    Where this one goes, I don't know. The document had interesting information, but I have no way of knowing what is factual, and what is not at this point. I do know that every ND from around here I am aware of where a gun "discharged in a holster" was later proven to be user fault (despite assertions to the contrary!). Many felt Glock's should be banned due to the risk of discharge without user handling. The experts, however, seem to feel Glock's are safe, and the stories of guns just going off are fabricated. Much like the officer in Florida at the school and the SIG P320.

    Who knows. Information is good, and you contributed very useful information to the discussion. Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  19. boilergonzo

    boilergonzo

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    Regardless of how we get there, I do think SIG should have (and now should be forced to!) do a full recall of guns. I understand gun companies are all reluctant to do "recalls" and prefer to do quiet "upgrades", but SIG owes it to their customers to do the right thing and recall ALL the early guns (and notify/repair any ongoing post-fix issues they see).

    That is a major disappointment for me. The risks of an ND/AD in the first iteration are absolutely real, and should have been addressed in a meaningful way.
     
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  20. Master Guns

    Master Guns

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    Well then he is a hypocrite because he speaks out for gun control and is as anti trump as it gets. Wow.. you are sucking up to him... unbelievable. He is a turd
     
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