Hot(ter) 9mm Range Fodder Help

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by HKLovingIT, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. HKLovingIT

    HKLovingIT Resident Evil

    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Location:
    Out On The Tiles
    Yep I know that's an oxymoron, but does anyone have any chrono data or has tested in the past to say what the hotter 9mm off the shelf stuff is, aside from lawman or Gold Dots :whistling:?

    I'm trying to work out some kinks in a new G17 and I want to get as hot an FMJ as I can. I didn't have any luck locating Winchester NATO or Lawman last week. I can usually find Blazer brass and aluminum, American Eagle 124gr, Federal, PMC, the Commie stuff.

    Thanks,

    HK
     

  2. Lowjiber

    Lowjiber

    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I was in Bass Pro Shop last week to buy white-box range ammo to feed my G19. They were completely sold out of everything 9mm except for some neatly stacked boxes of Winchester NATO. The gun guy said "People just don't buy that stuff."

    So, I bought 'em all (eight 50-round boxes)...$14.95 each.
     
  3. Merkavaboy

    Merkavaboy Code-7A KUZ769

    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    183
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    In The State Of Fruitloops (CA)
    You can try Fiocchi and Sellier & Bellot in either standard or S&B's "Police" loading. The European stuff tends to be slightly higher in pressure/velocity than the U.S. manufacturers.
     
  4. Quarter Tank

    Quarter Tank

    Messages:
    503
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2011
    Location:
    ATL
    I like shooting 9mm NATO. Feels like I'm in battle but with a paper target. I keep a big supply of NATO stashed away for Zombies.
     
  5. robhic

    robhic I'm your huckleberry.... Platinum Member

    Messages:
    17,208
    Likes Received:
    23,797
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Location:
    Louisiana
    +1 Thumbs up for the Sellier & Bellot. It is Czech made and is all brass, not steel like other Russian-bloc stuff. It seems a bit hotter (my feel not a chrono...) and it is fairly inexpensive and reliable. You can find it most anywher -- SGAmmo as posted above and about all other ammo sellers.

    I wanna say I got 1000 rds. for about $200+ bucks last year.
     
  6. tcruse

    tcruse

    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    +1 for S&B advertised at 1300 fps
    The Cheaper Than Dirt site generally lists speed of the ammo that they carry, so that is one place to get a handy reference.
     
  7. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

    Messages:
    30,738
    Likes Received:
    17,638
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    That would make it a +P+.
     
  8. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

    Messages:
    6,281
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    May 31, 2011

    +p & +p+ are for pressures and not velocities, e.g., Corbon 115 gr. +p gets 1,350 fps yet does not yield more than 38,500 psi, the max for +p.
     
  9. Foxtrotx1

    Foxtrotx1

    Messages:
    4,036
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Location:
    Scottsdale AZ
    S&B is hot. No doubt about it. Shooting that stuff makes you realize how bad federal is screwing you. Recently I have been shooting my stash of Winchester Ranger +P I got for 11.95 a box....muaaahahahhahahahaha
     
  10. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    19,544
    Likes Received:
    6,887
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Location:
    North-Central USA
    Here's some info I posted a few years ago, after some folks reported functioning problems with the Federal Champion in ported Glocks. Note: Current Federal Champion pistol ammo has a caution on the side of the box stating it shouldn't be used in ported/compensated weapons. I didn't remember seeing this on the first few boxes I bought.

    ------------------------------------------------

    Factory "target" ammunition, caliber 9mm Luger, fired through a Glock 17 and 17C.

    Temp: 68-70 degrees F, velocities measured 10 feet from the muzzle.

    Each test string was 10 shots in about 90 seconds.

    [​IMG]



    Federal Champion, 115 grain FMJ

    G17:

    1173
    1115
    1122
    1147
    1137
    1145
    1137
    1145
    1140
    1143

    Avg 1140 FPS


    G17C:

    1120
    1086
    1085
    1116
    1103
    1118
    1112
    1107
    1107
    1105

    Avg 1106 FPS

    Ejection was weak in the G17C from the rested position on the bench; most cases ejected almost straight up or slightly to the right, coming to rest on the bench within a foot or two of the shooting support. Fired standing, the cases seemed to travel slightly farther to the right, but an occasional case would still bounce off my arm or the gun on the way down to the ground. When I deliberately gripped the G17C very weakly, with an unlocked wrist, I was able to cause failures to feed or chamber approximately 15%-20% of the time with this ammo, but ONLY when I was holding the gun VERY loosely. I could not cause any stoppages/FTFeed/FTCh in the G17 using these methods.

    This ammo grouped fairly well at 17 yards (about 50 feet), with this under-3-inch 10-shot group being one of the best attempts (paper is 8.5" x 11"; dollar bill is 2.5" top-to-bottom).

    [​IMG]



    For velocity comparison purposes, several other brands of similar 9mm target ammo were also fired on the same day; those results are listed below.

    --------------------

    Winchester/USA 100 round Value Pack, 115 grain FMJ

    G17:

    1200
    1223
    1190
    1185
    1196
    1200
    1220
    1215
    1209
    1215

    Avg 1205 FPS


    G17C:

    1156
    1153
    1152
    1152
    1136
    1138
    1136
    1135
    1156
    1147

    Avg 1146 FPS

    No stoppages or problems of any kind were experienced with this ammunition.

    --------------------

    CCI Blazer (aluminum case), 115 grain FMJ

    G17:

    1172
    1155
    1146
    1157
    1150
    1153
    1147
    1160
    1138
    1150

    Avg 1153 FPS


    G17C:

    1135
    1126
    1115
    1122
    1126
    1109
    1122
    1105
    1105
    1129

    Avg 1119 FPS

    No stoppages or problems of any kind were experienced with this ammunition.

    --------------------

    CCI Blazer Brass, 115 grain FMJ

    G17:

    1212
    1198
    1222
    1215
    1232
    1225
    1212
    1225
    1225
    1242

    Avg 1221 FPS


    G17C:

    1186
    1183
    1167
    1175
    1175
    1182
    1142
    1189
    1176
    1183

    Avg 1176 FPS

    No stoppages or problems of any kind were experienced with this ammunition.
     
  11. unit1069

    unit1069

    Messages:
    10,603
    Likes Received:
    3,140
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Location:
    So. Central US
    The idea of "compensated" makes no sense to me.

    Why anyone would buy a pistol that redirects hot gas upward while diminshing the effectiveness of the ammo is a mystery to me.

    I suppose "soft recoil" might be a selling point for some folks but considering the drawbacks of compensated I still have no idea how the design ever gained adherents.
     
  12. Merkavaboy

    Merkavaboy Code-7A KUZ769

    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    183
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    In The State Of Fruitloops (CA)
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012
  13. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

    Messages:
    6,281
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    May 31, 2011

    However, Real World chrono results measure it at less than 1,150 fps even in longer barrels.

     
  14. HKLovingIT

    HKLovingIT Resident Evil

    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Location:
    Out On The Tiles
    Thanks for this info guys. I appreciate it.
     
  15. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    19,544
    Likes Received:
    6,887
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Location:
    North-Central USA
    I believe it was originally designed to reduce the amount of muzzle flip on rapidly fired weapons used in some combat-styled competitions, and given a well trained and practiced shooter, it will give a definite advantage in certain circumstances (such as multiple rapid shots required on a single target). As often is the case, some folks equated an advantage in competition with an advantage in defensive use, and it is there that your objections probably have the most merit. In my experience, unless a shooter concentrates their practice with the ported weapon and matched ammunition, and excludes all others, any advantage will be largely wasted. Again, that advantage usually only exists in certain circumstances requiring rapid multiple shots on single (or closely spaced) targets, and whether or not this is worth any potential trade-offs is up to the shooter to decide.

    But like other gun models they are different, and fun, and challenging to use well, and they can be easily converted to a similar non-ported model by simply dropping-in a non-ported barrel. So, they expand the number and manner of uses over a stock non-ported gun, and for those reasons, some folks like them. Count me among them. :wavey:
     
  16. Ceapea

    Ceapea

    Messages:
    867
    Likes Received:
    115
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Location:
    Midwest
    I have found the Gecco/RWS 124gr stuff to be a bit hotter than most domestic stuff.
    It does have some steel in it though (can stick a magnet to it), so you gotta be careful where you use it and if it is allowed.
    Very accurate and clean for me though.