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Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by 1canvas, Feb 22, 2010.
looks like ideal ammo, what do you all think?
Can't say I've shot any of it myself, but there's been a fair amount of comment toward it not going bang everytime you pull the trigger. Plus you have to be a fan of light for caliber bullets to use it. With plenty of other good-excellent loads floating around out there, I don't see it as a best choice, all things considered.
Which load(s) are you specifically considering?
its my current 9mm ammo of choice. It does exactly as its advertised to do. It ain't going to go through car doors or glass very well, but it will go through clothing very well.
with that said however, it's not the ideal round for everything. I do feel very comfortable using it for CCW as well as home defense. I like that I don't have to worry quite as much about overpenetration.
It is designed to penetrate and expand at low velocities. If recoil is a consideration or short barrels are part of the picture I think these are great.
Otherwise i will stick with some good deep penetrating heavy for caliber hollow points. I may get some of these for the new snubbie though.
I've always preferred "heavy penetrators".. usually Gold Dots. Seeing this round though, has me intrigued. TnO9 did a video of the 9mm on this one, and while I won't go out of my way to try it, I might pick some up if I see it at an OK price. The 165gr 40 doesn't bother me, but I think the 115gr 9mm is to light.
Neat round. Spawned from the FTX line pretty much, which I think was inspired by the VMAX/BST/Ballistic Tip.
Until hornady fixes spotty reliability problems, I'll pass.
I think a bonded round with the insert would be a nice idea.
I've got a box or two in 9mm. They're not my current carry load in this caliber, but I feel confident enough in them that I don't mind them taking up space in my ammo drawer.
If it can't penetrate, I can't relate.
I've never liked the ballistic tip ( or filled ) type stuff even as much as I love Hornady offerings. Even in hunting cartridges their not all their cracked up to be.
Pretty poor performers in the penetration department. This CD round was designed for around 11/12" penetration anyway, so it started out with problems IMO. Until they tweak the design to get deeper and more consistant penetration, I would stick with their heavier offerings in an XTP for your gun. That is industry. More gimmicks keep 'em coming.
I would feel better if Hornady would offer CD 9mm ammo in a +P variety.
Shallower penetration would result without projectile re-design.
I'm a heavy for caliber type my ownself, and a full length barrel advocate as well. convenience is a lousy criteria to use if duty weapons are feasible. ccw & home SD are also very different tasks, but in such situations as compact is not required, i'd prefer longer barrels. And the heaviest standard loading. suit yourself. it works for me.
i'm a gold dot fan but after seeing the video i thought it was interesting and wondered what others thought. i don't see myself switching ammo anytime soon though.
Gold Dots don't shed their jacket because the lead core is bonded to it. In a general sense I wouldn't call them soft, although that could be argued semantically. They do expand well, but aren't top dog, and therefore generally penetrate very well. As a matter of fact, the .355 cal 115gr Gold Dot bullet will usually outpenetrate all other .355cal 115gr JHPs because of how well it holds together at relatively high velocities. I wish there was a .400cal 135gr GD that could be designed to hold up to 10mm velocities.
The 135gr in 10mm isn't long enough, sectional density, to reliably give wide expansion w/o tumbling first.
I agree. Bond it and jack the velocity way up, keep the polymer tip and go to town.
Added velocity will only limit penetration insofar as the bullet continues to expand/fragment.
The diameter will eventually cease to increase as the petals fold back and around and the lead follows. A bonded design should eliminate fragmentation. So an increase in velocity should increase penetration and expansion will just occur more quickly/reliably. Right?
Standing against a wall with a yardstick shows I am only 13" thick so it seems to me 11/12" of penetration should get the job done. Its not like the bullet has to break through both shoulders of an elk and keep going. Besides the purpose of a self defense bullet is to stop your attacker not turn them into hamburger. Tests have shown that bullets that stay in the body have a greater percentage of stops than full penetration.
Hunting bullets are designed to break large bones and continue out the other side for a second wound channel as evidenced by the number of solid copper/reinforced jacketed bullets on the market today. Also a self defense bullet does not need to go 500 yards and still knock down the intended and/or unintended animal.
If a bullet gets 6-8" into a human body it has reached the heart/lungs if the shooter has done their job so does it really need enough penetration to continue on and hit an officer on the other side of the room. Leave friendly fire to the military so they can use the fog of war as an excuse.
Ah, Why am I getting a lesson in hunting bullets bud ? I realise what hunting bullets do, I was a guide for 25 years. My refering to them above was probably misunderstood. I only meant that I don't like the ballistic tip/plug even in the hunting rounds that perform poorly. I was not meaning we need a hunting round to use for SD.
Also, I agree that the human is only 10 1/2" to 12, 13" thick. But that is NOT the way to determine a SD round and penetration of the round though. When an arm is thrown up for example and my bullet has to pass through that arm and still get to the torso and to the vitals, all of a sudden that changes things. I may have to shoot through a barrier on purpose or by accident, say in a ma and pa store where some fool is blasting away (this stuff does happen BTW), and I hit the can goods (don't laugh), I still need a penetrating bullet.
Suppose the BG is quartering from me, wow I need penetration. Say he is in this position or that one. Well you get my drift by now.
Problem is we do not think outside the internet and jello test and water jug and pretty picture BOX. Folks are 'programmed' to believe they could NEVER encounter what a cop does. NOT SO. Ask me how I know. (please don't).
The world can have the HST's and all the other rapid expanders (which was my point with the plastic tip in SD and hunting rounds as well) sorry i did not do a good job of communicating that. But I will stick with heavy for caliber deep penetrators, and if something I use turns the guy into, "as you say.." "Hamburger meat," Fine. I will still be alive.
I cannot get a nasty enough round for my hand guns, because handguns stink as SD weapons. So, that being said, I want something that will go through glass, and car doors, and a can of ranch style beans or a big fat arm, or a quartering to me shot perhaps through an arm, and all 'still' get to the vitals so he is stopped. I do not shoot deer to stop them. I shoot them to kill them. Why would I compromise on a guy trying to beat me to death with a club, or stompping on me, or slit me from crotch to eyball with a knife and only want a bullet that has rapid expansion so he can continue..
I want the penetration. If he looks like hamburger when they come to get him, well, he should not have tried to kill me !
Let us not have sympathy on a dirt bag trying to kill us or our family or another... This mind set, (i have found) gets folks dead, just as much as hesitating before acting/shooting.
Stay safe bud.
If the bad guy is pointing a gun at you, you have to go through a good 8 inches of arm (your bullet will be going through it diagonally) before it ever touches the chest. Then it has to get through the sternum or possibly a rib.
While I'm no expert, it's my understanding that people don't stand around like targets waiting to be shot, either. There may be some cover that must be penetrated.