Honestly, Steyrs better than Glocks?

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by SilverState, Mar 13, 2005.

  1. SilverState

    SilverState

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    I have a few Glocks (26/27, 17, 34, 21, & 20). I also have an HK45. I was considering purchasing an S9 and/or an M9. Some die-hard Steyr forum members are posting about how much better Steyrs are than Glocks.

    But here's my concern:

    Are these guys just trying to justify their purchase by comparing Steyrs to Glocks? The reason I ask, is because of the extractor issues and the emphasis on cleaning that I have seen in other threads from this forum.

    With a Glock, you clean it cause you want to. With the Steyrs, seems like you have to clean it so it will work. What's up with that?

    I am a REAL BIG FAN OF RELIABILITY. I view guns as tools for self-preservation. And if the gun is 99%, it's not good enough to carry. That maybe fine for the range, but not for carry.

    So I am asking for an HONEST EVALUATION OF THE STEYR S9/M9'S RELIABILITY. Are these pistols as reliable as a Glocks - or HKs for that matter (both of which shoot 100% out of the box).

    Oh, and I am also concerned about the response "put a few hundred rounds through it and it will work fine". That is simply unacceptable for a carry weapon. Glocks and HKs don't need to be broken in to work 100%.
     
  2. Flashpoint

    Flashpoint NRA Member

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    I have had 3, a M40 S40 and a S9 and all of them have been 100% out of the box. I didn't even clean the M40 before I shot it and there it still ran fine. As far as cleaning goes, I have never let mine go for more than two range sessions (about 500 rounds) before cleaning them, but they still never skipped a beat.

    From what I uderstand Steyrs have closer tolerances then Glocks. So you might get away with running a few more rounds through a Glock than a Steyr, but why would you go that long without cleaning the tool that you rely on to save you life?
     

  3. SilverState

    SilverState

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    I was going to post a caveat about how I usually clean my guns after each use, and that I know the importance of cleaning guns, yada yada yada.

    But that's not the point. The idea is to get an honest evaluation of the reliability of these guns versus a Glock.

    It is nice to know you don't have to clean a Glock that often. Tighter tollerances often lead to malfunctions. I mean I have tried some match barrels that simply did not feed as well as my stock barrels. I would rather have a stock barrel with looser tollerances that always chambers a round. Get my drift?
     
  4. CGuns

    CGuns

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    I get your drift.
    Buy a Steyr and thank us later or, if you hate it (which I HIGHLY doubt), sell it back to us. I am sure one of us will buy it for fair market value.
    You can't go wrong.

    I own Glock and Steyr firearms. It is a tighter gun than a Glock.
    It feels heavier and less "fisher price" than a Glock. Again, this is subjective, but, holding both side by side, you would probably agree, too.
    In fact, I feel the Steyr is more Sig-Like in build precision, but with teutonic German/Austrian flair similar to a Glock. I hope that makes sense.

    Clean your guns!
    :)
     
  5. hihoslva

    hihoslva \m/ (>

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    Here's my evaluation:

    I'm at the 1500 round mark with my M9. In that time, I have had ONE cartridge that did not eject fully, stopping the slide from returning to battery and chambering the next round.

    And that's my only story. I did have two FTF at one point, but I'm pretty certain that the cause of these were guiding the slide forward on a new magazine, and not just releasing it to let it snap itself forward. In other words, user error, and not mechanical malfunction.

    So if we consider 1 "slow" ejection in 1500 rounds, that's a reliability factor better than 99.999% Perfect in my book.

    I've fired WWB, CCI Blazer Brass, and HydraShoks, and the M9 swallowed 'em all like candy. I've found no ammo "preference" in the gun as of yet, and really don't expect to. I believe it'll eat whatever decent quality ammo I throw into it.

    As far as "better" than an Glock - such things are subjective to the individual. I actually was out shooting today, and along with my M9, we had a Glock 22 and 36.

    The M9 feels better in my hand - by far. The grip is much more comfortable to me. As far as recoil, I can't really say it handles it better, because the Glocks were .40 and .45. Regardless, I enjoy shooting the M9 more, and I don't feel like it beats me up in the least. Take that for what it's worth. I also find the sharper grip angle feels more natural when aiming.

    I have shot my M9 both "clean" and "dirty" without issue. I've gone shooting, fired 200 rounds, then went out two weeks later and put another 200 through it without cleaning anything. No problems. I cleaned it out of the box before ever firing it, but to be honest, I will do that with ANY new firearm I buy unless I purchase it at a range.

    When considering everything else, the price of a Steyr from CDNN seals the deal in my eyes. I can buy two Steyr M pistols for the price of one Glock.

    I will not say the M9 is "better" than a Glock, becasue too much of gun preference is just that; personal preference. But make no mistake; the M's are high-quality pistols at an amazing price.
     
  6. FlaChef

    FlaChef Steyroid

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    Ok first off the steyr pistols were designed by a cop to be a cops carry weapon. He was also a glock employee at the time and pitched the design to glock as the "next gen". they shot it down and he sold the design to the other austrian arms company-steyr.

    in the 8 months I've been hanging out here I have seen a number of reports of fte's - ftf's. Few have had to go back for warranty work (and only one that i know of that didn't help), many have been user (they are very suscepible to limpwristing) or ammo (they hate wolf and about half seem to not like remington) high quality defensive loads have never been a known issue, nor has cci blazer or wwb for cheap range use.

    my best advise is to do some searches on here w/ "range report" or "fte" as the criterea. We kind of have an informal tradition of new owners posting their first few range reports.

    yes the tolerances on these weapons are very tight. When all is said and done that is the principle difference between them and a glock. The smoother trigger, and all steel subassembly w/ no parts embedded in plastic are really means to that end, or result from that end.

    A break in period is highly suggested (500-800 rnds.), that is probably the most common work around for any troubles and cures about 80% of the issues we do get reports of. But really less than 20-30% even need that break-in period for anything other than just 'smoothing out'.

    me personaly... in about 3,000 rounds on my M40 since July of '04 I've had ONE failure to extract, that was last week at an idpa match (after saying what a great gun it was too).
    I've now taken apart the extractor (first time) and the q-tips came out black after running it in that channel!

    om my S9 i had exactly four failures in the first 800 rounds. Two were with other shooters one brand new and one w/ my wife who i have known to limprist before. However after i got my second happen to ME i took it home and broke down the extractor and it was FILTHY in there. Why after so few rounds I cannot say, but after 350 more rounds not an issue.


    what IDPAsteyr suggests (after his 70k+ rounds through his M9) is to break down and clean in the extractor and firing pin channel every 2,000 rounds...
    http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=349993&highlight=service

    hope this helps, and rather than say just buy one and find out, do some digging here (you'll find no greater source of info on steyr pistols) and then decide if it's woth the $250 to find out yourself (assuming your ordering a closeout old model from cdnn like most of us or $500 for the new model).
     
  7. Berto

    Berto woo woo

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    I think it's worth keeping in mind also that the most similar Glock to the Steyr M-9 would be the G-19.Do similar searches about reliability,FTE and FTF's and you'll likely find folks who have had their share of problems with that gun too.
    This doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the G-19....but there have been some magazine follower and frame issues with certain guns in the different serial number ranges of Glocks.An occaisional blooper during the break in process can happen with any brand.
    Steyr ranks among the very best in gun makers not only in reliability, but overall quality...like combining the precision of SIG with the functionality of Glock.....which I think is pretty cool.;f
     
  8. IDPA Steyr

    IDPA Steyr

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    Honestly...75K+ rounds. Absolutely reliable. Yes it takes some maintenance. Less than a 1911, about the same as a Glock should get if people were really trying to do the right thing.

    I have shot handguns for a long time and I really enjoy the Steyr. Any handgun I have ever shot required a "break-in" period. They are a mechanical device and as such need a shake down before I have total confidence in them. It would be irresponsible to take a handgun out of the box and carry it for self defence. I need at least 250 rounds through a firearm before I will depend on it. That includes Glock, HK, Steyr, 1911, or any others. A prudent man will shoot 500 rounds through his defensive handgun to learn it, then at least 50 rounds a month to maintain his skills.

    You need to decide what you want and get it. Purchasing a handgun is a very personal decision, you need to find something that fits. Nothing I can say will convince you.
     
  9. FWF

    FWF

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    My perspective:
    I live on a farm, and I like all of my handguns to have enough accuracy and shootability to qualify for belt duty in this environment. It's the sort of job that an adjustable sight .357 is normally recommended for. Now, I don't use my .357 very much as it is not much of a deer cartridge and it's too blasted loud for impromptu use without earplugs. A 9mm with good bullets is sufficient for anything from a coyote on down, and 9mm brass is so plentiful I don't worry about losing a few.

    I've always thought that Glocks would be fine combat weapons, but I've had my doubts about their accuracy potential and trigger pulls. The Steyr seemed to address both of those issues while retaining the desirable portability of the Glock. I don't mind having to "break it in" if the end result is a pistol which is not only reliable but also quite accurate.

    Besides, who would you rather pal around with: a Willy Bubits or a Gaston Glock?;);f
     
  10. steyrboy

    steyrboy

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    Even though my member name says it all, one of my favorite carries is my Glock 26 and have shot pretty much every model that my friends own and my local range rents.

    I do love the G26. For me, I shoot it as accurately as many of the 4" barreled models. I've also owned 2 Walther P99's and owned a USP for about 2 weeks that I bought froma friend who needed the money THAT DAY and then resold because I couldn't afford to keep it at the time but took it to the range 7 times in that 2 week period.

    Yes, the Steyr is better. Here is why:

    1) The reliability of my S9 and M9 have been 100%. I've probably put 3000 rounds through both guns and have never had a single malfunction. My G26 was been 100% also and the only failures I ever had with a Glock was with the range guns, which makes sense. I don't ever suffer from limp-wristing and am generally "auto-friendly".

    2) There isn't a more naturally pointing pistol than the Steyr. It is almost eery how perfectly dead-on I am when I raise the pistol at a target. The grip angle, trap sights, and balance are amazing. Much more pointable than the Glocks. Without a doubt.

    I will say that regular sights are more accurate if you're trying to achieve tight groups, but trap sights are awesome when trying to get a very quick bead on a target, which is what defense is all about.

    3) Quality is absolutely top notch. These are extrememly well designed and made pistols. Definitely on par with Glock, HK, Walther. I think HK's are great but their price tag is higher than the quality justifies. That isn't a jab on the quality, it is top shelf, what I'm saying is that the same quality can be purchased for less money.



    The Steyr is all about handling. It is, to me, perfect in that respect. Which is very important in a self defense situation when you use less brainpower and more intuition.
    Forget about the reliablity issue, there isn't one with Steyr, you'll get the same reliability as you do with Glock.
    I have.

    I would retire the G26 if Steyr made a version smaller than the S9. The S9 is too big for CCW IMHO.

    I am right now in the middle of getting the new M9A1, which should be my dream pistol. It sounds so much more exciting than getting a G19, P2000, USP Compact, P99, or another 9mm in that mid-size bracket.
     
  11. Polymer Pete

    Polymer Pete

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    I wanted a Steyr a few years back. No one in my area sold them and I began to think of ordering one. Shortly thereafter GSI announced they were discontinuing importing them due to a factory closure, so I shelved any plans I had to get one.

    A few weeks ago I found this forum and was happy to see the Steyrs were back. Again, I initially wanted to order one, but hesitated like SilverState has...same concerns. I saw a few too many posts about FTF and FTE problems to feel confident. Now you guys have alleviated most of my concerns and I am back in the "I want one" mode.

    I have experience with the small and medium sized Glocks...right now use a G36 for carry. For all the bashing I see about Glocks on other boards...I really don't think most criticisms are well-founded. Yes, they are sort of "pedestrian" guns, but I sometimes feel they are singled out by gun snobs who really just want to justify the $$ they have spent on a 1911 or SIG (I have nothing against either). The Glocks do run reliably, which is important to me. In the past, I have sold one 1911 because of chronic feeding problems. The gun was just not reliable enough to use as a carry piece.

    I would like to find out how an S9 compares with the small (G26, etc.) and medium sized (G19 family) in terms of size...I know I can read dimensions and convert mm to inches, but I would like the opinions of people who are familiar with both Steyr and Glock. Someone posted that they thought the S9 was a bit big as a carry gun. If I buy a Steyr, that would be its primary use. Any answers/opinions are greatly appreciated.
     
  12. NewbieMN

    NewbieMN

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    I'm transitioning from a G19 to a S9. The S9 is slightly shorter in both barrel and grip. The slide does seem a tad wider though. Not sure if it is or just looks that way because of the low profile design.

    I wouldn't say the S9 is too big for CCW but then I didn't think a G19 was either. I think a Fobus paddle (use the SG21 for the Steyr)works well for both - and I'm a porker so a more slimline person should have fewer problems still. Now nope you can't wear a "wifebeater" and shorts and conceal the thing but that's true for anything but pocket guns. However a normal sweater. jacket or untucked shirt does just fine.
     
  13. Polymer Pete

    Polymer Pete

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    Thanks for your info, Newbie MN. I have used a G19 in the past for concealed carry. It is about as big as I would like to go in size terms. Good to hear the Steyr is not significantly larger. I live in a hot and humid climate for most of the year, so gun size is a bit more important than it would be in some other locations.
     
  14. steyrboy

    steyrboy

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    Polymer Pete,

    I have both the S9 and the G26. The S9 I wear with a Blade-Tech IWB and the G26 in a FIST IWB.

    The G26 is much more comfortable, drags down your pants less, is easier to wear while sitting, and prints less than the S9.

    I prefer the handling and trap sights of the Steyr and I'm a Steyr fan, but the G26 is a much easier carry pistol IMHO.

    The biggest 2 differences are noticably lower weight and the much shorter grip on the G26. While shooting, the extra grip on the S9 feels better than the G26. The G26 though, isn't tough to shoot and you can shoot as well and as much fun than the S9 with practice.

    I think the Steyr is the best overall design for me personally, but mine are used as home and auto defense while the G26 stays on me.

     
  15. FlaChef

    FlaChef Steyroid

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    search the image gallery on MrApathys site for some side by side shots.

    while i have never owned a glock and only shot other peoples I tend to really dislike the mushiness.

    From previous threads on thi same subject I get this:
    general rule on sizes from giggest to smallest...

    G17
    Steyr M
    G19
    Steyr S /almost identical size to a XD compact
    G26

    the m and S are kinda the in between the glocks, as there is no L steyrs.

    the only difference in size between M and S are barrel/slide length and length of grip (about 1/2" both ways). Width is the same.

    One area of importance is the steyr grip is egg shaped and not rectangular so it feels smaller even though it is the same in the outside.
     
  16. Polymer Pete

    Polymer Pete

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    I agree about the Glock trigger -- no one will ever accuse a Glock of being like a good 1911 in that regard!

    Many thanks for the photo gallery suggestion and the other info. I think I will take the plunge on an S9, assuming cdnn still has them by the time I get around to calling.
     
  17. loganm40

    loganm40

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    BETTER? hmm...a very "nonqualifying qualifyer" There are certain things I like about many different guns. 1911 trigger, Steyr trap sights, glock simplicty, SIG de-cocker, HK P97 accuracy, Desert Eagle KA-BOOM, KelTec concealability, Berretta 92 design etcc....
    I hate getting in discussions with people about which gun is better than another, I do know which guns are bettter for me. I outshot 2 people last saturday at my IDPA match, one had a 9mm Beretta, the other a G19. Both great guns, both fired every time, it was the person shooting that made my gun win. As far as self protection, I have seen 4 glocks screw up. 2 of them stove-piped rounds, 1 failed to chamber (short cor-bon 90grn ammo would run up the feed ramp, just hit it head on) and one shot some isreali re-loads and blew the mag out the bottom of the gun.
    I have never had a malfunction with my steyr and have never seen a malfunction but you also dont see as many on the range. I LOVE the safety features of my steyr, thats why i dont carry a glock. SAFETY is my biggest concern. My $500 Glock 23 doesn't do me any good if I've bled out my femoral artery from an accidental discharge. The steyr has the safety I need and an even more sensitive trigger than my glock.
     
  18. Polymer Pete

    Polymer Pete

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    I avoid discussions of which is the better/best gun also. Better for whom? and so on...

    I think we all decide what we can live with...nothing I have ever owned (or probably ever will) can be considered perfect. As you point out, some guns have singularly excellent features in one or two areas; others do not. It is all opinion, anyway.

    I have owned at least five different models of Glock. Never had more than one misfeed in using any of them over a considerable period. Maybe I am luckier than most...I really don't know. I never let any gun of mine get really dirty, though. They are always cleaned after a couple of hundred rounds go through them.

    So far as safety goes, yes, the Steyr having the safety system it does is a potential attraction over a Glock. On the other hand, I do not fear Glocks in terms of an accidental discharge more than any other gun...the potential for screwing up is there with anything.

    Thanks for your thoughts. Still leaning to buying a Steyr -- to supplement, but not to replace my Glock(s).;)
     
  19. SilverState

    SilverState

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    If you'll notice, I didn't just ask which gun is better and leave it at that. I asked the question and I then posted a few small paragraphs about what issues I was trying to address, namely reliability and the "break-in" requirement, etc.

    So while I agree that it is not an easy question to answer. I have provided some guidance as to what information I was specifically looking for. And I appreciate all the responders that were able to understand my question and the valuable insight that they provided.

    My decision is not to buy the Steyr. Not because most of you guys did not address the issues, but because it seems like the S9 is too big to be carried the way I carry my Glock 26. Additionally, I do not like medium-sized guns like a Glock 19. I like em big or small, but no in between. Big is good for the range, the home, or where concealment is not needed. Small is good for ccw. So, I don't need a Glock 19 sized pistol.

    However, after hearing your responses about how reliable the Steyrs are, I did recommend it to a friend of mine that is buying his first pistol and was leaning towards a Glock 17.

    So thanks for the input.

    Frankly, if I had more room in the safe, I would buy a few of these and just wait for them to go up in value. But there is no room. The only pistols I can justify right now are: Kahr pm9, Seecamp 32, or Tomcat 32. Why? Because I can easily conceal those in my front pocket and they won't spend much time in the safe.
     
  20. JMag

    JMag

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    They, apparently, are SO popular, CDNN is practically giving them away...;g

    Personally, the Steyr grip just doesn't cut it with my paws.