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Hit this poll/New guns-in-bars bill begins moving in Tennessee legislature

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by A6Gator, Mar 11, 2010.

  1. A6Gator

    A6Gator

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    http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/mar/10/new-guns--bars-bill-begins-moving-tennessee-legisl/

    Proposal expands right to firearms in more places, requires signs to opt out
    By Richard Locker

    NASHVILLE -- A new guns-in-bars bill began moving in the legislature Wednesday in an attempt to override a court ruling last fall that nullified a similar law approved last year. The court decision blocked handgun-carry permit holders from going armed into places serving alcohol.

    Poll.Should state legislators attempt to override a court ruling that blocked handgun-carry permit holders from going armed into places serving alcohol?
    Yes .
    No .


    "We don't know what the courts are going to do. So we would rather come back and make it clear for the permit holder where he can carry and not carry," said Rep. Curry Todd, R-Collierville, the bill's House sponsor.

    The bill won easy approval of a House subcommittee Wednesday over the objections of the Tennessee Hospitality Association that it will open every commercial establishment that serves alcoholic beverages to guns unless their owners post large signs at every entrance to say guns are banned.

    "The bill last year allowed carrying in places that serve food and alcohol," said Dan Haskell, the association's general counsel. "This bill allows carrying of weapons in every restaurant, every bar, every roadhouse in the state. It's a lot larger bill than what (the legislature) passed last year.

    "This bill would require posting at every door, and in the hospitality industry, the last thing we want to have to do is post notices about guns at the door. It doesn't seem hospitable to us."

    Under questioning from committee members, Todd agreed that the new bill requires large establishments such as Nashville's sprawling Opryland Resort and Convention Center to post a sign bearing a handgun with a red circle and slash over it at every entrance if the owners want to ban guns.

    The committee's approval is the first of several steps required for the bill's passage. Todd said he will take it to the full House Judiciary Committee next week, and his Senate co-sponsor, Sen. Doug Jackson, D-Dickson, plans to begin moving it there.

    But until it passes, Tennessee's 270,000 handgun-carry permit holders, and millions more in other states whose permits are recognized by Tennessee reciprocity agreements, are banned from carrying their weapons in places serving alcohol.

    After years of failed efforts by gun advocates, the legislature approved a more-limited law last year allowing permit holders to go armed into restaurants serving alcohol as long as they are not consuming alcohol themselves.

    But a Davidson County judge declared the law unconstitutionally vague on Nov. 20. The state is appealing that ruling, and some legislators wanted to wait on the case to work its way through the court system. But Todd said the legislative branch, not the courts, needs to settle the issue.

    "This bill is very clear," Told told the subcommittee. "(Opponents) are not going to be happy with any bill. We cleared up the posting requirements that were vague. "These are responsible gun holders in the state. No matter how long you wait, you're not going to please the opponents of this bill."
     
  2. A6Gator

    A6Gator

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    Curry Todd is right. The Tennessee Hospitality Association will continue to judge shop until they find one who will rule their way. The chancellor's previous ruling was more about what defines a bar than about restaurant carry, but in this case he addresses that by saying anyplace that serves alcohol. Restaurants can still opt out and create their own GFZs. Makes it easier to decide where to eat. :supergrin:
     

  3. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    Interesting. Kentucky has always allowed guns in restaurants that sell alcohol but get over 50% of their income from food. It's not hard to tell which they are, since they have a different liquor license, which is posted at the entrance and also allows them to serve alcohol on Sundays, when bars can't. I assume Tenn. does not have such a distinctive liquor license system.

    However, "unconstitutionally vague" is a very rare ruling that usually means the judge just wants a particular outcome and has no other legal basis.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  4. HerrGlock

    HerrGlock Scouts Out CLM

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    Poll: Should state legislators attempt to override a court ruling that blocked handgun-carry permit holders from going armed into places serving alcohol?

    Thanks for your vote.Response Percent Votes
    Yes 67% 136
    No 32% 66
    total votes: 202
     
  5. A6Gator

    A6Gator

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    Right. The TN Hospitality Association judge shopped until they found her... Quite frankly, with the opt out clause in the previous legislation, I couldn't see what was "vague" in the last bit of legislation, but I guess I just couldn't understand those subtle nuances... I don't do well with shades of grey.
     
  6. FillYerHands

    FillYerHands you son of a

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    161 to 75 in favor as of now.
     
  7. A6Gator

    A6Gator

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    It'll be interesting to see if the Commercial Appeal keeps the poll up if it keeps going this way...:supergrin:
     
  8. Acujeff

    Acujeff

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    Poll still open. Go vote yes.

    Should state legislators attempt to override a court ruling that blocked handgun-carry permit holders from going armed into places serving alcohol?

    Response Percent Votes
    Yes 81% 420
    No 18% 94
    total votes: 514
     
  9. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    What is really interesting is that ALL establishments, in Tennessee, which are licensed to serve alcohol by the drink are REQUIRED to serve food.

    This was a real surprise when New Orleans based "Pat O'Brian's" planned to open a "bar" on Beale Street. Codes Enforcement approved their building renovation plan and they started construction. When they applied for a liquor license, they didn't have a kitchen - so they couldn't prepare food on the premises - so they were not a restaurant - and could not get a liquor license. They had to have the architect redesign the renovation, get it approved through codes enforcement, and get the kitchen construction underway before a liquor license could be approved. This created a several month delay in opening.

    The judge ruled that the "carry in alcohol serving restaurant" law was vague - how can it be vague when all establishments which are licensed to serve alcohol by the drink are required to serve food.

    Tennessee cannot establish a CCW law based upon 51% food without first changing the licensing laws, and associated accounting requirements.
     
  10. Navitimer

    Navitimer

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    I just voted - right now it's 85% in favor and the poll has about 750 total votes. My hope is that NC follows the example that will hopefully be set by TN. I completely agree that someone should never be carrying and drinking; however I see nothing wrong with carrying in restaurants that serve alcohol assuming the carrying individual does not drink.
     
  11. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    I can't wait for it to pass so we can find out what Kwirnu is going to carry into a bar.
     
  12. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    lol..
     
  13. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    What ever it is - orange paint will be involved.
     
  14. Eyescream

    Eyescream hates you

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    What do you think the chances are that we could arrange a blanket party in his honor?
     
  15. Caver 60

    Caver 60

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    "This bill would require posting at every door, and in the hospitality industry, the last thing we want to have to do is post notices about guns at the door. It doesn't seem hospitable to us."

    They sure didn't seem to have any problem putting those no guns signs up last year! Every place I saw had one, including the pizza joints. Never saw so many signs in my life. I got tired of eating fast food. There was no place to get a decent meal.
     
  16. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    That's probably it - typical legislators copied another state's 51% law without realizing all Tenn. bars have the same liquor license, so there is no distinguishing number on the front window.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
  17. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin

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    I own a bar/lounge here in Portland and I sometimes forget that you cannot carry into bars in some states. Even if you could not in Oregon I would never press the issue against my customers. As far as I am concerned if it is concealed how am I supposed to do anything anyway.
     
  18. WCrawford

    WCrawford OC Zealot

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    Maybe I need to get a legal mini-Uzi (NFA), since a G18 would be impossible to get, so I can get the attention that Kwik gets on this board. :)
     
  19. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    If you are gonna keep up with Kwik you need to stay abreast of cutting edge open carry. He moved to percussion black powder for his last adventure. So you need to consider making yours a flintlock.
     
  20. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    Careful what you ask for...:whistling: