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Hexsite, Advantage Tactical, etc.

Discussion in 'Sights, Optics and Lasers' started by ricklee4570, Apr 1, 2010.

  1. ricklee4570

    ricklee4570

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    Has anybody actually put the Hexsites on your pistol long term and can give a review?

    Or, the Advatage Tactical sights? Long term review?

    Im thinking about new sites for my G-26 and was thinking of something different to possible improve speed and accuracy.

    I know I could go with the standard notch and post system, but I am curious about these "different" sights.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010
  2. bentbiker

    bentbiker

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    I'd love to try the Hexsite and the Ameriglo U-Rap (ghost ring with open top). Trying to position the front post on the Advantage Tactical sight doesn't look like it would be quick to me. In fact, I think I remember somebody posting that acquisition was not quick for him.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010

  3. The Lambinator

    The Lambinator

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    I've been using the HexSite for over 13 years...is that long-term enough for a review. I happen to be a long time family-friend with the owner, and have had first Gen. HexSites since their inception. The new HexSites (polymer) are equally awesome, maybe better, and I have them on all my carry guns.

    First let me make some distinctions. I believe that speed and accuracy are functions of the familiarity of a weapon. A new pair of sights won't help you get faster if you don't index the weapon properly to begin with. If the weapon is indexed properly (assuming adequate trigger control) merely pointing the weapon will provide sufficient combat accuracy and lighting fast times (relative to your speed of course). The problem is, no one is truly comfortable with taking the sights off their side arms and leaving it that way; and point shooting with the Notch and Post still attached can make you neurotic, as you needlessly adjust more for the inherent accuracy of the sights, when what you need is speed. Most give on up on their sites in a life or death situation, and consequently give up on form and control. I recently read that police have an average hit rate of about 25% during a deadly encounter.

    All that being said. The HexSite does not suffer from these problems. Its is not so much a sight alignment system as it is a combat target confirmation system. If you are a serious combat shooter, who may have to stare death in the face, and won't have time to double check your sight alignment, the HexSite is the best and fastest way to be able to confirm that you are on target without stopping to look at the sights. When you change your mindset, to something more like shooting with holographic sights, which requires some trust in your equipment and abilities, then you will find the HexSite to be simply amazing.

    What is so cool about it, is that you are rising to your inherent level of performance. Only that the HexSite is not hindering you like so many other sight designs do.

    Good luck with your decision!
     
  4. ricklee4570

    ricklee4570

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    So it sounds like they work great for quick combat distance scenarios.

    How do they do do when a person is plinking at a long range target? Are they as
    inherently accurate as typical notch and post sights?

    I appreciate your review.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2010
  5. JimMarch1

    JimMarch1

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    I am, without question, the weirdest "Hexsite" user out there. WAY out there. There's a reason for the quotes.

    First, let's start with how these work. With Hexsites you focus on the target, not the front sight. The Hexsites still work and allow proper sight alignment without having to think about it and with both front and rear blurry. The shape allows them to work while blurry.

    That means first that once you've got a target IDed and you decide to fire, you don't need to shorten up your focus to the front sight to fire. And then once you do fire, you can pick your next target, yet again not changing the sight plane focus. It's absolutely incredibly fast both to the first target and then it feels even faster switching targets.

    The weird part is that you don't need to consciously maintain the gun's alignment. Once you have an alignment and your eyes are focused out towards the target, you can shift your vision and gun around like a single unit without thinking about it. You don't have to think about sight alignment unless you decide to line things up carefully for a very long shot. Most of the time all you have to think about is where the threat is and when to fire - alignment feels like it's on autopilot.

    Because the sights work even when blurry, I find that despite being pretty severely near-sighted I can do combat-accurate shooting without my glasses, which trust me is otherwise impossible. Don't get me wrong: it's not at ALL ideal but if I can make out who the threat is accurately, I can shoot them.

    The Hexsite recipe calls for all-black sights front and rear, hex rear aperture, post front with a notch in the top. Glowing/shining/colored sights get in the way of a target-focus setup.

    Real Hexsites these days get there with high-tech polymer or polymer coatings that don't "glint".

    Now. I used the term "Hexsite" in quotes. I don't own a real set. Tim Sheehan doesn't make them for my Ruger New Vaquero in 357Magnum.

    Yeah, you read that right.

    So when I sent Tim pics of an early version of my own personally made copy of his setup, he laughed his ***** off and invited me up to his shop to compare my "Goshdarn Hacksite" to his real ones. It was clear I was barking up the same tree, and even my first crude attempts were the best sights I'd ever shot. I learned quite a bit from him and my setup is now what I'm calling the "Mk4 Hacksite".

    [​IMG]

    Chortle.

    Here's the earliest version:

    [​IMG]

    By the time I drove from Tucson to Tim's place in Sedona I had ditched the fiber optic core - like Tim predicted, it was getting in the way. Lacking the materials Tim had available I was getting glint problems like crazy on the front. The full-length tube solved that, bigtime, and protected the relatively delicate front sight blade (now a shaped putty epoxy post over that original steel core).

    In this fashion, in stages, I've been able to test the various components of Tim's setup one piece at a time. The closer I get to Tim's genuine recipe, the better it works.

    Regarding distance shooting: I'm a desert shooter, I use dollar-store praline crackers as targets at combat distance (no need to clean 'em up) and I often shoot at rocks out to 100yds plus. The Hacksite has no particular advantage at that range but no disadvantage either - traditionally aimed front-sight-focus shooting is still very practical.

    "Hacksite" is a slight misnomer - I used a dremel tool with a cutoff wheel to get the rear aperture from a 7mm socket! :embarassed:

    Tim's real sights of the current generation don't need to be covered in a tube like this - the polymer-coated steel-core front doesn't glint and both front and rear are tough as nails. So his setup fits in a standard holster.

    Mine emphatically doesn't. That forced me to make my own leather and this is my daily-carry-without-fail rig (and the only centerfire gun I own):

    [​IMG]

    Y'all may think it's a nutty choice of hardware but I can assure you, I get enough practice in to make it work:

    [​IMG]

    Tim doesn't mind me talking about this weird independent proof of concept critter but he does ask that I mention his request not to have any more "Hacksites" running around, at least not without prior permission :). And I'll never make one for sale :D.
     
  6. The Lambinator

    The Lambinator

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    Because of the implied lines of the Hexagon, the ability to refine to the precise center, is infinite. If you can see it you can probably shoot it. But you can't use a bullseye shooting mindset; think I just need to ring that bell, and place to target precisely in the center of the Hexagon, which comes naturally anyways.

    On my old full size 1911 with the HexSite, I was out-shooting my friends at distances of 85-95 yards. We used to try to one up each other with walk back drills. Starting at 10 yards, ring a metal plate about 10 inches wide and 20 inches tall, after each successful hit walk back 5 yards. Eventually, my group of friends dwindled from 4 or 5 to two of us at about 65 yards. Of course I usually beat my buddy who had a HexSite on his Glock 26, but that wasn't a result of the sights, but the weapon.

    Today, I carry Glock's exclusively, and never train beyond 25 yards (not practical). If I need to kill something that is 26 yards away, I'll get my rifle!

    I know Tim is also working to produce the HexSite for M4 Carbines, which let me tell you is all kinds of fun. Currently, there are only a few prototypes, but I've had the pleasure to shoot them. Also, on a Rem 870, well....with the HexSites, its just plain unfair. But who wants to fight fair.

    As I am in application to Army OCS, let me tell you how much better I would feel if I have the dual Hex on my M4. Hopefully, he'll get that off the ground.
     
  7. goosedowner1

    goosedowner1

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    Those look like something I might have to get.
     
  8. lostone1413

    lostone1413

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    I have Hexsites on 4 of my guns. I find them to work just as the web site says. They are a very good investment!!!!!!!!
     
  9. Old_Romad

    Old_Romad

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    Well, I haven't used the Hexsites as long as "The Lambinator". Nor made up as many as "JimMarch1", (though I did do several). I did have experience with the hex shape sighting type of system in the US Air Force, where we used it to line up distant (10-20 miles) antennas, which we could usually do in an hour after a scientist from the AF research labs and an optomitrist came up with the hex concept, rather than a scope type reticle sight we had used that took often more than one day to align. There was no more "is it aligned?” whether verticly or horizontally. It was just THERE, in the center, first try. I had forgotten all about them until I ran across Tim's site. The first thing I did was beat myself up for not thinking of it myself! Then, I called Tim as fast as I could, and wound up with them on a couple of guns. My favorite, and old "T" model FN (REAL FN) High Power in 9mm. That's my baby. It fits my hand to a T! So when I got the Hexsite installed, I couldn't wait to try it out. I really thought I was the cock of the rock already! It's a little bit like outdrawing yourself with a sixgun, while looking in the mirror! It is HARD to face, when you beat yourself! And, there is no other description I could use. I spent 14 years working as an AF ROMAD (www.romad.com if you are interested) and couldn't guess within several hundred thousand, how many rounds I fired through 9mm, 45 ACP, and everything from an M1 Garand, to an M1 Carbine to finally the itty bitty black plastic toy gun. (Hey, the ATF thinks so, I can too) I fired at least 2-3000 rounds a week through an MP5-SD, and a HIGH POWER!!! We worked with the Brits a lot, and that was what they used, so... Anyhow, I got pretty good, and I thought had stayed that way. I was still shooting up there with most of the top shooters in this area, though I don't enter competitions anymore. Then. *drum roll, please*... I got "baby" dressed up in her new sights! I have NEVER shot that well since I stopped shooting several hours every day, WAY back when! They first day I spent throwing a couple of boxes of 9mm's downrange just to get used to the Hexsites. First, get used to lining the post up centered vertically, don't worry about horizontally (that will come automatically) and not even caring what I did to the target. (I actually listened to Tim, though he would never believe it (or admit it)
    Once I got used to that, I easily started (about halfway thru the first box) just seeing the front sight (remember, I shot millions of rounds before, but the hex sight I had used was NOT on a gun!) in front of a blurred target. (Still is, as my eyes are going. Left one sees shapes and nothing else already) By the middle of the second box, I didn't even realize at first, that I DIDN'T SEE THE SIGHTS AT ALL! All I saw was the target! The one with all the HOLES IN IT! The next session was after a few weeks of dry fire practice. I went out, cold, with no "warm up" shooting, and decided to "test" the sights. I "tested" me! As I said, I haven't shot that well, since my life DID depend on it! If I had had these 30 years ago, I would not have the (way too many) bullet holes in me that I do! Though a Training Sargeant used to say that was because everytime someone yelled, "duck", I would stand up to see what kind! MMM, could be, I guess. ANyway, several folks here abouts have just recently put them on their Glocks, (sorry, I don't own one, they do NOT fit my hand, but my sons swear by them) and all quickly started putting more holes in target centers than surrounding paper. My oldest son, who is a PD Motor Officer, is showing the Hexsites off to his department tomorrow. Hopefully they like them as much as everyone I have shown them to. I want Tim to succedd, but I want my son to be safer, and if he has a better chance at hitting a suspect, before he can do him (who's on first?), that's my real reason for honking about them! Well, that and I can now outshoot them all again! (My sons at least) I am going to try and attach pics of that second session. Might as well brag, even if it WAS the sights that did it!

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. uz2bUSMC

    uz2bUSMC 10mm defender

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    I'm an ATS guy here. I haven't rang them out in awhile but they acuire fine for me, and the distance part is the key attribute to me. 9rnds in 3 1/2" at 50 yds from a rest. Another group at approx 50yds, 3rnds in under 2''(looked more like 1 1/2") using the side of a tree for stability. Shot a floppy disk off hand at approx 50yds. Since they come to a point, it is easy to "aim small" at distance.
     
  11. JimMarch1

    JimMarch1

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    OR: I've heard one other report on the use of a hex tube for sighting comm gear, from somebody who contracted for cellular infrastructure setups in Afghanistan not too long ago. So I'm not at all surprised.
     
  12. jbfla

    jbfla

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    First of all a disclaimer. I teach shooting classes and also sell HexSites. I have them installed on multiple Gocks, S&W MP, two Sigs, one 1911 Colt, and multiple XD's and a 870. I also have them available on various Airsoft models. I shoot them all and let my students shoot them as well.

    I let my students experience the HexSite on my guns but I do not try to make a sale. The students can decide for themselves what works best for them. Most of them like the HexSites and shoot very well with them. However, many of them do not shoot Glocks so they have go stay with regular sights. Many of my students shoot XD's, with some S&W M&P's and some Sigs and a few 1911's plus just about everything else that has been sold. I actually do not see all that many Glocks. I am not sure of the reason but many of my female students go out an buy a G19 after shooting mine in the classes. Some of them also like my G26 as well followed by the XD subcompact and the M&P 9C.

    See my website at www.jb-training.com to see what I teach. I start my students off with point shooting so I teach them to use a target focus instead of their sights. For most of them point shooting will work from distances from 20-30 feet and produce 98% combat accuracy. This is compared to police shootings where 10-25% hit rates are common inside of 20 feet.

    As I state on my website the Hexsite provides an excellent transition to sighted shooting once one has mastered point shooting. Both use a target focus. See my descriptions describing my experiences with my students.

    The Hexsites are an excellent combat sight when doing sighted shooting. They deliver the needed combat accuracy at distances where point shooting does not get the job done. Transition from point shooting to using a HexSite is seamless since both emphasize a target focus. There is no relearning.

    While the Hexsite can be used for target shooting the reason to put them on your gun is for self defense under conditions of extreme stress. That is where it shines. Since I teach self defense shooting to the exclusion of target shooting I have considerable experience with the HexSite under those conditions. I rarely do precision target shooting unless it is related to a combat situation type of shot. I do not shoot bulleyes and do not use these types of targets in my classes.

    My experience is most people practice on their ranges under conditions that have little similarity to the situations they are likely to encounter if faced with a lethal assault. In a real situation, dynamic movement and point shooting are essentials that must be mastered. One-handed shooting is likely and low light is the norm. When I positively must make a precision shoot then the HexSites are used. They do work under these conditions.

    I hope this helps. Contact me if you have any questions.
     
  13. threefeathers

    threefeathers Scouts Out

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    I put the Advantage Tactical (orange/yellow combo) on my G-32 when I was at LFI III after Mas used them to shoot a 300. (last year)
    I spent the week with him and he has them on his G-17. So for most of the week folks in Tucson would have seen two of us with the orange/yellow combo.
    For old eyes, torn retnia in the left, bad injury from an M-60 cookoff in the right, these sights allow for instant sight pick up with the front sight.
    Alinining them takes more practice but once done they are accurate in a G32 to 100 meters for every time steel hits.