Helicopter problem

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by mhambi, Feb 17, 2005.

  1. mhambi

    mhambi κολασμένος

    Messages:
    15,464
    Likes Received:
    10,197
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2001
    Location:
    209
    so what went wrong here? ;P
     
  2. MarcDW

    MarcDW MDW Guns Millennium Member

    Messages:
    3,744
    Likes Received:
    23
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 1999
    Location:
    Maine USA
    Well there is a download problem in the first place!
     

  3. Neal

    Neal Millennium Member

    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 1999
    Location:
    Indiana
    It downloaded fine for me. I think I saw something like this a good while back. Is this from last year?
     
  4. TimC

    TimC Uhavthecontrols

    Messages:
    2,131
    Likes Received:
    233
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2001
    Location:
    Established on the localizer
    Neither my Mac or wife's Dell with XP can open that file. What type of file is it?
     
  5. gamegod86

    gamegod86 Male Lesbian

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Location:
    Middle Tennessee, USA
    Opened it with Windows Media player 9.

    I have no idea what happened to the helicopter, though.

    Had to have been a heckuva ride, though.
    .
    .
    .
     
  6. protozo1

    protozo1

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Location:
    Northeast
    Wow, what a video, those guys must have **** their pants! Lucky they made it out alive.
     
  7. mhambi

    mhambi κολασμένος

    Messages:
    15,464
    Likes Received:
    10,197
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2001
    Location:
    209
    the extension is .mpg but I think it's really a .wmv


    try saving it and renaming it.
     
  8. MarcDW

    MarcDW MDW Guns Millennium Member

    Messages:
    3,744
    Likes Received:
    23
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 1999
    Location:
    Maine USA
    I saw this on TV years ago(?) when it happend.
    Tailrotor failed!
    If the guy would have managed to get to 45-60 knots he might have been able to make a running landing.
     
  9. TimC

    TimC Uhavthecontrols

    Messages:
    2,131
    Likes Received:
    233
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2001
    Location:
    Established on the localizer
    Possibly tail rotor related problem, however the tail rotor is still turning during the descent. Plus, that would not explain the large amount of abrupt cyclic control. It could also have been a flight control problem.

    P.S. Changing the file extension enabled me to view the video (which I have seen before) on the Mac.
     
  10. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

    Messages:
    23,853
    Likes Received:
    10,198
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Location:
    Wherever they pay me to park
    I think he was loosing tailrotor and tried to get enough airspeed to keep the nose going one way, maybe he dumped cyclic to get forward airspeed.
     
  11. Tennessee Slim

    Tennessee Slim Señor Member CLM

    Messages:
    4,413
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Location:
    Mucus City, USA
    After the 'dive', he pulls the nose up for nearly 3 seconds before he looses control. That maneuver wouldn't have arrested the descent if he hadn't also been pulling pitch. If he had been pulling pitch and was short on tail rotor authority, it'd have started spinning right then.

    What started it all, I dunno, ...maybe settling with power, but he definitely was experiencing loss of tail rotor effectiveness at touchdown.

    The control inputs all appear abrupt and jerky, beginning to end; my money's on a flight control problem.
     
  12. flyandscuba

    flyandscuba

    Messages:
    1,074
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    May 16, 2004
    Location:
    The Cradle of Naval Aviation
    Failure of a pitch control link....?
     
  13. Helopilot

    Helopilot

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Belton, TX
    looks like a hydraulics failure with over control as he slows the airspeed.
     
  14. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

    Messages:
    25,750
    Likes Received:
    15,099
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Texas
    I agree.

    The pilot had input to all the controls and it wasn't tail rotor failure (you've been it that, at least in practice;) )

    You know what a bugger it is coming to a hover, with the hydraulics out, if you are too fast at the bottom and he was way too fast and over controlling the heck out of the bird.

    Never flew a A Star. I wonder if they have boosted pedals?
    If so that would account for his having trouble holding heading at the bottom.
     
  15. Makila

    Makila

    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2003
    That particular model Astar (AS350BA) don't have boosted pedals.the B2 and B3 varients have boosted pedals. Dont know what caused the crash but they were sure lucky.My guess would be hyd failure which is pretty common with the Astar. I was told that you shouldn't try to hover without hydraulics but try to do a run on landing if possible.

    Makila;)
     
  16. TimC

    TimC Uhavthecontrols

    Messages:
    2,131
    Likes Received:
    233
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2001
    Location:
    Established on the localizer
    One can hover a Bell 206 without hydraulics, but it isn't easy. There's some variation between individual helicopters on how they fly with hydraulics off. I have no experience in the AStar.
     
  17. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

    Messages:
    25,750
    Likes Received:
    15,099
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Texas
    The book calls for a run on landing but the choppers in the gulf (of Mexico) have a waver to terminate to a hover and that's what we trained to do.
    Slow approach and terminate at a hover. More like come to a forward stop and continue down vertically.
    On check rides I would hover a while for practice.

    The 206 isn't too bad with hydraulics out but the 407 isn't fun. You almost need help pushing the collective down.

    Once, landing a 206B on a barge in the Sabine River, my hydraulics went out on short final.

    Back then I was a much better pilot than I am now, but not as smart.;)
    I decided to take off with no hydraulics and fly next door to our base.
    About 15 foot in the air it became clear I had a bear by the butt.

    But not to break my streak of stupidity, when I approached the base instead of landing out in the open I decided I was good enough to land on the maintenance pad between two buildings.

    It was not pretty.
    But I didn't break anything.;f
     
  18. Makila

    Makila

    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2003
    MC
    I wish they were more pilots like you who would fess up when they do things they aint suppose to do. glad it all came out okay.
    With the Astar in case of hyd failure you're suppose to reduce airspeed to 60 kts and fly without hyd at that speed. Anything faster would be a bear to handle. We had a pilot that had to fly for 45 minutes w/o hyd before he found a spot big enough to set down.He had to ask the passenger next to him to help push down on the collective!!!!In the GOM you don't have much choice but to do like you said.:)

    Another incident again due to hyd failure and pilot did what he was trained to do headed for an airport a few miles away and during the attempt for a run on landing he slowed down too much and next thing he knew he way doing 180's and saw his tailboom pass him on his left. Horizontal stab took out passenger window but no one got hurt.Almost took out a 206 parked on the pad.
    Makila;P
     
  19. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

    Messages:
    25,750
    Likes Received:
    15,099
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Texas
    WOW, bad accident.

    That was one advantage in learning to terminate at a hover with hydraulic failure.
    You were purposely getting the conditions as bad as they get and having to handle it.
    So your landing couldn't turn to crap because it was already crap.:)

    Of course I'm just guessing, but in the video and your second example the chances are if those pilots had training in zero AS hydraulics out they might not have been in trouble.

    Hydraulics failure is really pretty minor as helicopter failures go.;f
     
  20. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

    Messages:
    25,750
    Likes Received:
    15,099
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Texas