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Heat or ice for sore muscles?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning' started by BCR, Apr 3, 2007.

  1. BCR

    BCR BIGASS!!!!

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    Man, I always forget which one.

    My lower back is sore as hell (not injured, just sore).

    I've been doing 5x5's for DL, squats and bench. The DL's are killing me and the squats don't help either. My back has been sore for a couple of weeks straight now.

    And being hunched over making that sand bag and farting around with it didn't help either.

    So is it ice or heat and how often?
     
  2. BigJohnFromHoll

    BigJohnFromHoll

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  3. Blitzer

    Blitzer Cool Cat

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    An Ice pack followed by moist heat feels so much better and works fine.
     
  4. DBradD

    DBradD

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    You should go over to the CrossFit message boards and see what they have to say. I think they mostly recommend ice.
     
  5. proactive

    proactive

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    If I have an injury, I'll ice primarily. For soreness, I take a hot bath. Sometimes, I'll use biofreeze or mineral ice if I'm miserably sore, but I think the sensation just takes my mind off the hurt.
     
  6. DBradD

    DBradD

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    This subject is very entertaining. The CF folks are in love with ice baths and contrast showers and hate hot baths. I think they're just sadists and want members to be miserable!

    I tried contrast showers for a week and accomplished one thing: froze half to death. Didn't notice even the slightest improvement in recovery time, etc. I started thinking that it was more of a mindset thing than an actual physical benefit, but who knows.
     
  7. G. Gunman

    G. Gunman Draw Varmint!

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    :) Either hot or cold will loosen you up; but, if you want to repair the damage, then, you want to start with something cold. (Works against inflammation!)

    15 to 20 minutes, at most, for the first cold pack. Follow up with heat for another 15 minutes and, then, cold again for the final 15. Repeat every 4-5 hours for several days.

    (Oh, yeah, deep breathing exercises are, also, particularly good for the lower back. So is momentarily hanging from a ceiling beam - But only when your spine is, otherwise, straight and relaxed.) ;)
     
  8. MD Mountain Man

    MD Mountain Man 2A Supporter

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    Lack of hamstring flexibility is a huge contributor to low back pain. A routine stretching regimen will do amazing things over time. Good luck. I hope your back feels better soon.
     
  9. DBradD

    DBradD

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    So how are the DL going? I remember that you passed the 400 mark a while back. Still using sumo?
     
  10. BCR

    BCR BIGASS!!!!

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    Thanks for the help guys.

    I knew ice was for injuries, but couldn't remember for actual soreness.

    My poor lower back just couldn't catch up with all the stuff I was doing.

    Mountain Man, I am a little tight in the hamstrings. I've been stretching a little more lately and for about a month now have been doing Romanian deadlifts. Those help a lot.
     
  11. BCR

    BCR BIGASS!!!!

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    Yup, still doing sumo.

    I settled down a bit and haven't maxed for a while now. 415 was my PR.

    I've been doing the 5x5 with the same weight for each set, and adding 10 lbs each week. This week will be 355 for 5x5.

    For me, the 5x5's are brutal, because in the past I only did a few working sets, and usually those were pyramid up.

    I don't know who came up with the 5x5 theory, but they knew what they were talking about. It seems to be working great!

    Painful, but great.;)
     
  12. California Jack

    California Jack Millennium Member

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    Brad(BCR),

    I don't know how old you are or other things that factor into recovery. But 5 worksets of 5 may be too much. My approach to the DLs is one or two worksets of 5 reps with 3 pyramiding warmup sets. When I do just one workset I also throw in a backoff set.

    Last night I was reading "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe. He recommends a 5x5 approach. As far as worksets go he recommended 3 but he singled out the DL saying that one work set is ample.

    Dinosaur Training by Brooks Kubik also talks about one top set of 5. Heck, Brooks even outlined 4 progressively heavy singles followed by 1 single at top weight.

    Cutting back to 1,2 or maybe even 3 worksets may help with your back issues.

    I'm no expert however.

    Good luck,
    Jack
     
  13. California Jack

    California Jack Millennium Member

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    oh yeah, one more thing a was told by my Cyber Weightlifting coach about the deadlift; Every once in a while you need to backoff in the weight you are lifting and work up again. I do a 4 steps forward three steps back approach. For instance I just did 405x5.so I backed off to 385x5. The next week 395x5 the next 405x5 and than 415x5. After this I will backoff again to 395x5 and repeat the pattern. Obviosly you can use different increments.
     
  14. DBradD

    DBradD

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    How is that book? I've been thinking of getting a copy.
     
  15. DBradD

    DBradD

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    :banana: :banana: congrats on the PR! :banana: :banana:
     
  16. California Jack

    California Jack Millennium Member

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    Hi Brad (DBD),

    Well, it's a good book if you want to refine technique on any of the five lifts he discusses or coach new trainees in the lifts(squat, bench, DL, press and power clean). As for the other info, give me a little longer with the book. I have had it for a while, but read it in bits and pieces, skipping around to what intrests me at the time.

    I have not seen it, but i have heard good things about his second book, something like Practical Programming.

    Anyhow, I'll get back to you about this book.

    Jack
     
  17. BCR

    BCR BIGASS!!!!

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    Jack, I welcome any and all advice.

    The 5x5's were recommended by a few guys over on MonsterMuscle, for me specifically as a DL beginner (trying to build up a good base). Not sure if you've seen that site, but it's forums are full of very experienced PL's. Lots of those guys are putting up huge numbers and seem to really know what they are talking about. Numerous guys even work out with Ed Coan.

    Doesn't mean it's perfect for me though.

    Those guys told me to start off light and work up. That way I would be getting my form down. I may have started off a little too heavy.

    Honestly though, I already was considering going down to 3 working sets.

    I planned on backing off every 6th week.
     
  18. BCR

    BCR BIGASS!!!!

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    I have it as well and think its pretty damn good.

    I really like the chapter on squats. Now if I could just keep my knees from shooting out over my toes. ;)

    It's got a ton of good photos that show the right and wrong way to do basically everything on all lifts, from the grip to total body position.

    Like Jack, I've only picked through it though.

    One thing I noticed about it is that its all about true strength, and not moving max weights. For example, it states not to use a super wide stance on squats, or use a crazy big arch for benching. This is NOT in anyway a bad thing though, just something I noticed.

    I wouldn't hesitate getting a copy.
     
  19. California Jack

    California Jack Millennium Member

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    That's true. It's about training athletes not Power Lifters.




    BCR,

    Good job on the DLs. I'm certainly not going to argue with elite level Power Lifters.

    Good luck and keep up the hard work.

    Jack
     
  20. California Jack

    California Jack Millennium Member

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    Brad(BCR),

    I just went and read your thread at MonsterMuscle. The guy that told you to do 5x5 with 5 worksets said to start at 50% to 60%. You are now doing 5 worksets at over 85%!!

    Generally speaking, as intensity goes up the volume needs to come down. There is a big difference between 5 worksets at 240 lbs verses 355 pounds.

    Just food for thought.

    Jack