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Has anyone seen the rates of obamacare?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by plainsman, Mar 7, 2010.

  1. plainsman

    plainsman

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    I know the rate has to be insanely high, based on insuring basket cases with no deductables, but I have never even seen a proposed rate. Whatever the start up rate means nothing, because just like cell phones, utility companies, airlines, etc., whatever cost increases that come along will just be passed on to the consumer. I called my congressman's office, but he was unable to supply a rate. Is this how we plan on giving away 1/6 of our economy, without data?

    However this quack care rate must be a doozie!!!
     
  2. tnhawk

    tnhawk

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    Look at the Post Office or Veterans Administration for examples of what obamacare will be.
     

  3. DarwinOSX

    DarwinOSX

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    There are multiple plans all under negotiation that change. There is no one plan with one constant number. This is how our political system works. Our current medical insurance systems is broken. It is based on 80% of healthy people paying for 20% of sick people. The healthy people are opting out because they can't afford the sky rocketing premiums. This is why individual insurance coverage is going away. Group coverage is still profitable for the insurance companies but they are seeing the same problems. So the insurance companies keep raising rates often on the order of 30 to 40% for group which means more people opt out because they can't afford it. This cannot continue. Something has to change. The problem is neither political party has the slightest interest in what we want they are only concerned about scoring people so they can can continue to guide things in the direction their corporate masters desire.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  4. rahrah12

    rahrah12

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    It is actually nothing like the VA or even medicare for all...

    A better question is what are our rates going to be without any change. I know for most people they are and have been currently going up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  5. MtBaldy

    MtBaldy Obie Wan, RIP

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    Obama care will be a disaster and it looks like the Dims are going to ram it through no matter what the consequences.

    Health care is in the state it is because of regulation not because of lack of legislation. Lawsuits also play a huge factor. A significant portion of the cost of virtually everything we buy is liability insurance to protect the manufacturer from lawsuits. Anything labeled for medical use has even higher costs from something as simple as an adhesive bandage or tongue depressor to high tech medications and equipment. The lawsuit lottery that has made lawyers the defacto rulers of the country and obscenely wealthy is the biggest drag on our economy in history. The legal system must be fixed before any meaningful improvement of health care can happen.

    Here's what we need to do:

    Tort reform and caps on judgements. There needs to be costs both to the plaintiff and counsel for filing frivolous lawsuits. The judgements are also insane. They result from juries composed of people barely bright enough to tie their shoes and a general desire (created by the public schools and the media) to punish big business for being so greedy.

    Allow insurance companies to sell what their customers want and to sell wherever they can find customers.

    Stop requiring hospitals to treat people who cannot pay. Yes, this sounds cruel but look at how many hospitals have closed because they can no longer make expenses. Once a hospital has closed it can't treat anyone.

    Send illegal aliens home. I know this doesn't sound like health care but it is. In south Florida illegals treat emergency rooms like their primary care physician. The hospital has to treat them even though everyone knows they will never get paid. The illegal either has no or a phony SS number and no fixed address.

    Of course the real problem is Democrats don't really want to fix healthcare and they see illegal aliens as a huge unrealized voter pool.
     
  6. rahrah12

    rahrah12

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    Obamacare in its current form probably will fail...I also think that the current healthcare situation will bankrupt America.

    Tort reform is good (and I believe currently in the bill) but the amount of money it will save, according to the CBO, is not enough to bring about any real change. But it must be done.

    When you say that hospitals should not be required to treat someone without insurance does that include ER? They do need to be able to turn away people who go to the ER for the sniffles...

    Should illegals be allowed to buy health insurance?

    I don't think the Dems or Republicans want to really fix health care. They want to do what is best for themselves politically. Which has lead to a bunch of compromises...no way a bunch of compromises are whats going to fix healthcare IMO
     
  7. Random

    Random Makeshift Patriot

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    Your original question: Has anyone seen the rates of obamacare?

    No. No one actually KNOWS yet. But, much like this thread most folks have made up their minds and even though rates have been consistently on the rise for years if they rise or remain constant in the next few months Obama will be found to be at fault. If anyones rates go down they will stay silent until someone else says their rate went up, then they will jump on their bandwagon.

    We will complain everyday that the country is on a downward spiral and that someone should try something different -as long as no one actually tries to do something differently. By and large Americans appear to be hoping that this bill will fail. To either justify their positions as victims or to at least prove that THIS President isn't THEIR President.

    Even if this works we will find a way to break it purely out of spite. And we will be worse of for it.
     
  8. Hawkwood

    Hawkwood

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    These are significant points that show the motivation behind any "reform" done on healthcare. Give it free of charge to a vast untapped constituency in exchange for votes...and refuse reforms on tort law in exchange for money. The trial lawyers are the second biggest contributor to democrat coffers...right behind the unions. :steamed:
     
  9. Cody Jarrett

    Cody Jarrett

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    No one in Congress seems to know them either. Too much readings on the bill. Couldn't possbly absorb everything.
     
  10. PIDDLER

    PIDDLER

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    I nominate this for "post if the year".:wavey:
     
  11. the iceman

    the iceman Proud Veteran CLM

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    This is because the Dems don't believe there are going to be any consequences. Hell, many of them laugh at the fact that they might be defeated like it could NEVER happen.

    November is going to be sweet!
     
  12. plainsman

    plainsman

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    Personally, I have taken deductables on my car, home, and even health insurance, it just makes common sense to keep rates affordable, and if a insurance company is not bothered on a 5.00 claim, then my premiums have to be better. People need common sense coverage, not pie in the sky crapola that drives premiums up beyond belief.

    People fail to realize that you can have any benefit that you want to pay for, more surgery then Michael Jackson, just go for it and be prepared to pay that government premium. You will pay premiums to fund whatever insane policy they come up with- no deductable, no exclusions, is perfectly clear insanity to me!

    Past work in the insurance field showed me it was insane to write basket cases. For these folks, buying a policy is better then winning the lottery, example, I want a organ transplant, or sex change operation, (no deductable, no exclusions) for those it is better then winning the jackpot. For the rest of us, limited medical users, we will gain nothing then supporting 30 million dead beats and illegal persons with health care, who have nothing better to do then bankrupt the system. Unfortunately, the goverment has the ability to tax through the IRS and enforce this even if it bankrupts us. I don't believe people should be forced to buy anything, it they want to take charity like they do now, or have no need for conventional medicine, they should have the opportunity to do so.

    Others have said a fact and it is true, this will destroy our doctor patient relationship, and governmentalize your private medical history, that can only be used against you. Any safeguards are BS. Once your currrent system is destroyed, you have nothing left to do then take whatever crap is given you.
    Two questions, if regular premiums are high now, how could OBAMAcare not be beyond belief, and why don't I ever hear to take the medical quacks out of the medical profession? Whenever there is a screw up, it usually involves multiple negligent people. People as in any profession get to the point that they are no longer competent, and need to be dismissed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  13. Javelin

    Javelin Got Glock? Silver Member

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    What ever happened to people paying the damn doctor when they get sick? Why is it that everyone needs to live on a system?
     
  14. plainsman

    plainsman

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    Personally, I have taken deductables on my car, home, and even health insurance, it just makes common sense to keep rates affordable, and if a insurance company is not bothered on a 5.00 claim, then my premiums have to be better. People need common sense coverage, not pie in the sky crapola that drives premiums up beyond belief.

    People fail to realize that you can have any benefit that you want to pay for, more surgery and Michael Jackson, just go for it and be prepared to pay that government premium. You will pay premiums to fund whatever insane policy they come up with- no deductable, no exclusions, is perfectly clear insanity to me!

    Past work in the insurance field showed me it was insane to write basket cases. For these folks, buying a policy is better then winning the lottery, example, I want a organ transplant, or sex change operation, (no deductable, no exclusions) for those it is better then winning the jackpot. For the rest of us, limited medical users, we will gain nothing then supporting 30 million dead beats and illegal persons with health care, who have nothing better to do then bankrupt the system. Unfortunately, the goverment has the ability to tax through the IRS and enforce this even if it bankrupts us. I don't believe people should be forced to buy anything, it they want to take charity like they do now, or have no need for conventional medicine, they should have the opportunity to do so.

    Others have said a fact and it is true, this will destroy our doctor patient relationship, and governmentalize your private medical history, that can only be used against you. Any safeguards are BS. Once your currrent system is destroyed, you have nothing left to do then take whatever crap is given you.
    Two questions, if regular premiums are high now, how could OBAMAcare not be beyond belief, and why don't I ever hear to take the medical quacks out of the medical profession? Whenever there is a screw up, it usually involves multiple negligent people. People as in any profession get to the point that they are no longer competent, and need to be dismissed.
     
  15. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie

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    I figure that the proposed health insurance care will do to the medical industry what Congress did to the housing market and financial world when they decided that everyone and their cousin "magically" qualified for loans they could not cover with their income, allowing them a share of the American Dream of being in debt the rest of their lives.

    And we all know that worked out quite well... didn't it?

    Nancy, Harry and Barry... smart people who know what's best for the rest of the country... to be sure, kinda like Barney Frank knows housing & finances, another wise person driving the bus.

    But I could be wrong
     
  16. Kozel

    Kozel

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    Obama’s health care reform is not about health care or reform. It is about US Government going broke. Obama said that without healthcare reform Federal government will go bankrupt. Obama guaranteed that.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXkJEExyysI

    He needs to raise a lot of cash in new taxes and now. Most of “health care reform” does not go into effect for many years but taxes are collected now.
     
  17. Carrys

    Carrys Inquisitive

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    Whenever anyone cries about how we're already paying for the "uninsured" via the hospital ERs, they never seem to mention that the hospitals do it because the law forces them to do it.

    Most all the "uninsured" can buy insurance, they simply choose not to. Seems they have other "pressing" needs, just as those without auto insurance. And why "waste" the money, from their prospective....................they can always go to the ER, for free. To them anyway.


    However simplistic my small rant may be, I just tired of some folks thinking they deserve something because others have it, no matter what "it" is.


    IMO, the only things deserved in this life, by anyone...........are the things God grants you and what you grant yourself, as in what you achieve through your own labors.

    And yes, that includes people with kids, with debt, with sooooo many other "needs", and folks without the things "everyone else" has. It's been that way the world over for as long as we've been on/in it, and despite what some altruistic people think......it always will be that way. All their "efforts" will mean squat in a hundred years, they just don't like to think about it. Their "self image" is what drives them.

    The "have nots" have always hated/been envious of the "haves" over what they have. And they've never cared how the "haves" get what they have. They appear to believe they're "due" because............well, because they want it. The fact that some idiots that don't have a clue in their empty heads (always the folks who seem to believe we're all "equal", when we aren't. We simply have equal opportunities....what we do with them is up to us), and that dishonest segments of our political system use "it" as a reward for casting the "proper" vote................doesn't somehow make it correct.



    Opinion, rant, or whatever.......off.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  18. ElevatedThreat

    ElevatedThreat NRA Member

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    There are no rates, because there is no finished bill.

    The House passed one thing, the Senate another, and both of those are thousands of pages of Liberal wish lists, including hundreds of new appointed political health care bureaucracies, and their associated staffs and budgets.

    It is all just a power grab.

    No one pushing this cares if anyone gets a splinter removed, or a hangnail treated. Just so long as they gain political power and a huge budget to wield.

    As to rates, well, you just know instinctively that since people who don't pay for their own health care now, are supposedly going to be given more of it under Obamacare, that the people who pay for their own care now, are going to be paying more -- both for their own, and to subsidize the non-payers.

    -ET
     
  19. ElevatedThreat

    ElevatedThreat NRA Member

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    I note with dismay that too many posting on here have fallen for the class envy and re-distributionist aspects of the Obamacare proposal.

    If more people worked for a living and carried their own weight in society, instead of looking to have government take from the other guy and give it to them "for free," most of our problems as a nation would be solved.

    -ET
     
  20. Dandapani

    Dandapani

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    My son sent me this...
    A clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons of gas a year.



    A vehicle that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons a year.



    So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce US gasoline consumption by 320 gallons per year.



    They claim 700,000 vehicles so that's 224 million gallons saved per year.



    That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.



    5 million barrels is about 5 hours worth of US consumption.



    More importantly, 5 million barrels of oil at $70 per barrel costs about $350 million dollars



    So, the government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350 million.



    We spent $8.57 for every dollar saved.



    This is all without taking into account that a person with a new vehicle will drive it more than than they did the clunker, and use more gasoline than they were before! Of course, BHO has a very high IQ, so it must be a good program.



    I'm pretty sure they will do a great job with health care though...





    THINK GREEN, RECYCLE CONGRESS!