Gun trends you cant get on board with.

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by Tihsepa, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. Jisbell40

    Jisbell40

    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    762
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    can’t get on board with people saying that 9mm is equal to 40 357 sig 45 357 or 10mm. It’s not. It never has been nor will it be. Marginal difference? Maybe. But equal? False. The same bullet technology that benefits a 9mm benefits all the rest as well. The gap between calibers is the same as it’s always been.
     
    hogship, Nucflash, Cali.Glock and 7 others like this.
  2. B C

    B C

    Messages:
    11,952
    Likes Received:
    43,917
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    AR or AK pistols.
     
    Willard, JMag, Nucflash and 6 others like this.

  3. garya1961

    garya1961

    Messages:
    3,756
    Likes Received:
    5,185
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Location:
    NC
    I guess I'm doomed then because I don't own one.
     
  4. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

    Messages:
    7,735
    Likes Received:
    4,146
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 1999
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Wow, i agree that 45 is not a death ray... but your missing some basic physics in your thinking no difference between 9mm 40 45acp etc.

    Projectile diameter / bigger is better

    Projectile speed / faster is better especially with hp ammo as expansion is velocity based.

    Projectile weight / heavier is better

    Projectile capacity / more rounds are better

    Gun weight / heavier makes recoil less problimatic , light weight easier to carry

    Gun size / larger is easier to operate , smaller is easier to conceil .

    Kinetic energy of projectile ie foot pounds / more can put more energy on target , but recoil can reduce speed of follow up shots. Must have enough energy to defeat clothing and cause wound damage to stop threat.



    So my points are that 9mm may be enough to get done what you need in a defensive role.. .380 might be enough ... 22 LR might be enough .. 38 special might be enough... but the larger diameter of .40 or 10mm or 45 acp offers more energy and velocity or bullet mass. Depending on load selected.

    Choosing .380 or 9mm is choosing a lower bullet weight and energy foot pound result than choosing 357 sig , or 10mm or .40 s&w

    If your comfortable with those calibers great.. but dont make the mistake of thinking new bullet technology means everything is the same. It is not. The same improvments in technology also increase the performance in larger , faster, heavier calibers.

    In rifle performance a 300 win mag still has a lot more energy than a 30-30 a .308 AR still outperforms a 5.56 AR.

    I have no issue with people saying they are happy carrying a 25 or 32 or .380 pocket pistol. Or even a 9mm. But more powerful and more effective calibers are available.
     
    plp, Blackshirt and treg like this.
  5. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

    Messages:
    7,735
    Likes Received:
    4,146
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 1999
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Excellent post. I agree with your well written points.
     
  6. Diesel McBadass

    Diesel McBadass Tactically Epic

    Messages:
    12,144
    Likes Received:
    3,219
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2011
    Location:
    Dover Nh
    short slides with long grips. Mullet guns. g19x, m&p 3.6, etc.
     
    smith10, Peak Fudd and treg like this.
  7. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

    Messages:
    7,735
    Likes Received:
    4,146
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 1999
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    You have good points. Simple and reliable are very very important. I choose often 10mm in a 1911. More rounds than a 45 but not as many as your 9mm. I feel that the critical defense ammo is excellent in reliability and that the flex lock bullet is about the best modern bullet design. I own and have carried 9mm , but i feel better when i carry 357 sig or 10mm or 45acp. I hope i never need to use any defensive firearm. Seems like a terrible experience that i dont ever want.
     
    jr24 likes this.
  8. treg

    treg

    Messages:
    2,090
    Likes Received:
    3,023
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Location:
    W. MI
    AR-15's
     
    gatorboy likes this.
  9. DonD

    DonD

    Messages:
    9,797
    Likes Received:
    13,568
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Location:
    Central TX
    You apparently didn't read all I said. Have you looked at the Lucky Gunner testing? They test using FBI protocols and in most all instances, the Federal 124gr +P HST out penetrates and produces both a larger temporary wound channel and a bigger permanent channel than the tested 45ACP ammo. That testing isn't all encompassing but it is the standard by which defensive cartridges are evaluated by.

    My S&W M&P9 2.0 runs 445 ft lbs with that ammo, as much as about any 45ACP load and will out pentrate them along with having a 17 rd capacity.

    More powerful calibers do exist, want to try issuing people my S&W 500 Mag with 2900 ft lbs? Makes your 45 look like a lame mouse fart. Of course it isn't even remotely suitable as a defensive gun.

    .308??? A real wimp compared to my .458 Win Mag.

    Oh, and I should mention, compared side by side a .308 looks lame compared to my 500 Mag. 308 makes a water filled milk jug bounce and blow up. The 500 Mag DETONATES them. I lined up 6 of them. Heavily splashed me soaked the sand 30' either side of the centerline.

    I can play ballistics games all day, the 9mm does defensive work very well, your opinion is in the minority. Don
     
    Quigley and ILeft like this.
  10. rock_castle

    rock_castle Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness

    Messages:
    15,958
    Likes Received:
    31,048
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Location:
    The Rocky Mountains
    Obscure calibers like .45 gap, 357 Sig, and 10mm.
     
    Quigley likes this.
  11. LinuxLover

    LinuxLover Ba-nan-nah-nuh

    Messages:
    2,208
    Likes Received:
    2,507
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2018
    Location:
    59901
    • Colors don't float my boat. Maybe camo is kinda OK - but it's still a head scratch for me.
    • Barrels that stick out past the slide. Yuck!
    • The whole "Military-look" think is kinda a big turn-off too. It causes hate and discontent among antis, and I like the look of wood on a rifle/shotgun since I build guitars and really appreciate a nice wood grain.
    • Cut-outs and compensator ports on a pistol that didn't have them OE.
    • I'm old and these are my opinions --- so there!
     
    FullClip and Tihsepa like this.
  12. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

    Messages:
    7,735
    Likes Received:
    4,146
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 1999
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I added to your idea with 357 sig and 10mm .

    The performance difference between the five i am talking about can be a lot.

    And your adding in some odd comment about a death ray is just out of the discussion area i believe you are trying to discuss. I also saw nothing about lucky gunner fbi testing in your post.. that post is what i responded to.

    The 9mm and 45acp are both old rounds.. but they both benefit from newer powder and bullet design. In a fmj design the 45 acp held quite an advantage. But that was very different time. Peoples love of the 45 began far before ww2 , but the 1911 was considered an excellent powerful and deadly gun when chambered in it.


    Maybe in 30 years you will be telling someone how awesome your 9mm is when they are talking up the 61 grain 5.5 mm pistol that the same in performance .
     
    gatorboy and Jisbell40 like this.
  13. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

    Messages:
    7,735
    Likes Received:
    4,146
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 1999
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    The gap i would agree with. The 357 sig is fantastic and has the numbers to show how accurate and powerful it is compared to 9mm..

    The 10mm i thought was done, a hardly used relic. I always liked the performance advantage , heavier bullet and much faster velocity... a modern take on the 45 acp if you will. But the 10mm is growing rapidly in sales of guns and ammo.
     
    JMag and Jisbell40 like this.
  14. tacticaljoey

    tacticaljoey

    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    765
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Any Gucci gun ie: battleworn, stupid colors, threaded barrels with thread protectors on guns that will never see a suppressor, gold barrels, lightened slides with all kinds of shapes cut into and out of them. Any $1,100 poly striker pistol. Unless you are using it for competition pistol just knock it off with the race gun bs. It’s the new version of a bubba rifle.
     
    Nucflash, jr24 and Tihsepa like this.
  15. jr24

    jr24

    Messages:
    3,453
    Likes Received:
    3,763
    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    You just described the entire current STI lineup.

    And just when I was thinking of spending STI $$, but not for that race gun stuff.
     
  16. DonD

    DonD

    Messages:
    9,797
    Likes Received:
    13,568
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Location:
    Central TX
     
  17. Terry G

    Terry G

    Messages:
    2,563
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Wasn't a CAR-15 was it? If it worked it probably wasn't.
     
  18. Terry G

    Terry G

    Messages:
    2,563
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    The large trend of carrying mini .380's as EDC's. I have heard the "If I'm just going to the store I just drop my LCP in my pocket." You better hope this isn't the day the Ghetto Bro's decide to get milk too. The mini's are BUG's, plain and simple. I carry an LCPII for back up. If I ever have to use a gun I hope it's not that one.
     
  19. ranger1968

    ranger1968

    Messages:
    9,204
    Likes Received:
    14,347
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Location:
    Wayyyyyy down South, shootin' stuff and Jeeping!
    Right, and you retired how long ago?

    Weapon lights have been pretty standard on LE pistols for a while now in a lot of places....
     
  20. MinervaDoe

    MinervaDoe

    Messages:
    15,917
    Likes Received:
    9,888
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    When I see people at the range with a laser on a handgun, the red dot moves around like someone is teasing a cat. To me, something that shows a potential adversary how unsteady you are is not giving you an advantage.
    But, if you've got a steady hand, more power to you.
     
    Nucflash likes this.