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Gun laws in different countries

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by mr00jimbo, Feb 15, 2010.

  1. mr00jimbo

    mr00jimbo

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    I'll start with what I know about Canada.

    You need a licence called a PAL (Possession and Acquisition) or FAC as it was formerly called. You can either challenge the exam, or take a course for about $150.00 and if you pass, you send in for a license. This is a federally controlled thing, though small firearms laws vary from Province to Province, as well as how willing the local police are to enforce them.

    To obtain a firearm, they are organized in two categories; restricted, and non-restricted.

    Non-restricted firearms are your run of the mill trap guns, pump actions, bolt rifles, yadda yadda. They can be discharged on "Crown land" (i.e out in woods following certain guidelines) and transporting and storing them is a lot more lax.
    Shotgun barrel length can go quite low, and often you see people rocking 12.5" or smaller barrels without a problem with legalities.

    Restricted are the ones deemed "evil" (through no logic), i.e all handguns, black rifles like the AR15, certain "tactical" shotguns too I believe.
    Restricted firearms can only be discharged at approved ranges, and require an ATT (authorization to transfer) which basically means you have to have a piece of paper telling you that you have permission to transport them to and from a range at a certain time, taking the most direct reasonable route.

    Handgun regulations: All handguns must have a barrel length of 106 millimeters. That means a Glock 17 is legal to own, but a Glock 19 is not.
    All pistol magazines can can carry a maximum of ten rounds, achieved either with pinning said magazines, or by manufacturers creating them like such.

    The barrel length of semi-autos includes the chamber, so that 106mm includes both the barrel and the chamber. However, on revolvers, this is not true, and the barrel length is for the barrel ONLY, and revolvers must be much larger in size than semi-autos to be considered legal.

    These restricted firearms must be transported with a trigger lock, in a locked container, and preferably in a locked car.

    Same deal with the AR15s. But ARs have been limited to five round magainzes until recently, the RCMP have been convinced the AR uses pistol mags (I don't know...) and you can now posses and use ten round magazines. Most restricted semi-auto rifles are restricted to five round magazines. Same with shotguns.

    Prohibited class:
    Certain firearms were banned at the drop of a hat. There's speculation that when this happened, various models were banned from any possession, and the police came and took them away. Like, you were a legal owner on Monday, then on Tuesday a law came into effect and you were a fugitive. I'm not sure how accurate this is but I wouldn't put it past the lawmakers.

    Some guns were "Grandfathered". For example, handguns with lengths under 106 millimeter, as well as .25 and .32 caliber guns (with some exceptions, it's complicated!) were deemed illegal. If you had one in your possession before this, you were grandfathered a Prohibited class 12-6 license. There are other classes of this, including some full automatics and certain others.



    Some guns are banned just by name, because they sound "evil", including the, you guessed it, AK47 and its variants. The definition of a variant is very unclear, so certain guns look like an AK, but are different enough to be non-restricted firearms, like the CZ 858.

    Registration:
    Since a few years ago, all firearms in the country have to have been legally registered. We currently have a minority Conservative government who wants to kill the non-restricted registry. All the other parties vote to keep the registry, so what the Conservatives do is grant an amnesty to let license-holding owners possess a non-restricted firearm without legal repercussions, but the aim is supposed to be to get them registered. However, the amnesty has been renewed like, three years in a row. So you can tell they just want to obliterate the registry for good.
    It's commonly regarded as a huge waste of taxpayer's money (2 Billion dollars and counting, exponentially over budget, surprise surprise) and is unsafe because it has security issues and people can hack in to see a "shopping list" of firearms.

    Registering a non-restricted firearm takes like, a minute on the computer.
    Registering a restricted class (e.g handgun, AR15) takes a few days and they have to do it manually, run you through the system, then you have to obtain a short-term ATT to get permission to transport the gun home during certain hours or a certain day. Why? I don't quite know.

    Has any of this curbed crime? Absolutely not. Is it frustrating and confusing? Yes! Laws change under your nose and suddenly you're doing something that's wrong without even knowing it. Fortunately the current Conservative party is pro-gun and waived license renewal fees and is working to curb the non-restricted registry.

    Police often get confused as to what's legal and what's not. I was shooting in the woods, being 100% legal, and I got searched and told I needed trigger locks for my guns (which I did not) and I'd be let off with a 'warning'.
    Gee, thanks.

    Anyway, I figured I'd let you know how needlessly complicated and asinine it is here, and would love to hear how it is in other places too!
     
  2. -gunut-

    -gunut-

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    Interesting. Glad it is not like that in Oregon!

    I only have a visa in the Czech Republic, so I am not eligible to purchase firearms, but I will share what I have learned.

    [​IMG]

    To purchase firearms/ammo, you need to have a firearms license. To get this license you need to take a class, then they test you on safe firearms handling and the local laws. Pay your fee, pass the test, and get your firearm permit.

    Once you have your permit, you can purchase firearms and leave with them the same day (takes about as long as it does in the free states within the US). With your purchase you get a little laminated card that contains all the pistol's info that you are to keep safe. You can buy everything from revolvers to full size glocks, with no size restrictions. I do not believe there are any restrictions on magazine size. Rifles (AKs, ARs, bolt guns, etc.) are also legal, as are shotguns.

    Concealed carry is legal without a permit, but open carry is not.

    Jump through a few more hoops and you can obtain a "collector's license," which allows you to purchase machine guns. Go to a local gunshop and you will see everything from M60s to UZIs.

    -Prices for ammo around are the same as the US
    -Glocks run around $800
    -Used CZ pistols can be had for around $300-350
    -Most used revolvers run in the $350 range, and around $700 new
    -Machine guns can be had for very low cost (saw a Sterling for $350, and a Skorpion for about a $100 more)

    Gunshop window filled with MGs
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

  3. -gunut-

    -gunut-

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  4. snowbird

    snowbird

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    They can concealed carry without a permit? Beyond the original firearms permit and possible collector's permit, that is. The Czech Republic seems to have a lot more freedom than, say, the UK.

    Canada has modeled itself quite a bit off of the UK (with some French input too, via Quebec), but also has US influences, so it is freer than the UK, but less so than the US, it seems.

    Nice pictures, gunut.
     
  5. steve1988

    steve1988

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    This is pretty interesting. Keep them coming, please.
     
  6. Corrado

    Corrado

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    Your Canadian laws sound even sillier than ours in the UK.

    We need an FAC (there are two types target and hunting if you have a target FAC you cannot hunt) , the conditions are ether you are a member of a shooting club, or you have access to suitable land to shoot over and you have a secure place to keep them. This means a police approved safe, usually bolted to an outside wall (IE a solid wall) in your house - upstairs prefered.

    On the FAC we have 'Variations', these are 'permissions to acquire firearms'.

    These are very specific, for example you may choose to obtain five firearms (you can have many more, but you need an approved home alarm system) , a .303 bolt action rifle, a .308/7.62 bolt action rifle, a .22RF semi-auto rifle, a .38/.357 lever action rifle and a .38/.357 long barrel revolver.

    Note the use of .38/.357 - this is intentional, as if it had been stated as a .38 only, then if a nice .357 rifle came along you would not be able to get it!

    The situation with ammo is the same, you have to have permission to buy, AND store! You think that sounds crazy? With black powder you need permission to buy, transport and store!

    If you do not have a hunting FAC you cannot buy expanding ammo.

    If you change your mind on any of the variations you have you have to fill in a form, and send it in to your authority with your FAC to get it changed, this can be a matter of a few days or a few weeks depending on the authority.

    Hand guns are banned, unless they are muzzle loaders (no, I've no idea why they are allowed), or they have a barrel of not less than 12" and an overall length of not less than 24".

    I can let another club member or probationer member shoot my .357 lever action rifle BUT no one can shoot my .22 long barrel revolver, unless they have one on their FAC.

    It is possible to have a 'normal' hand gun, but you cannot take it home, it stays locked at an approved armoury. Sounds like a waste of time to me.

    Semi-autos are banned - rifle and hand guns, except for .22RF - you can have a long barrel .22RF semi auto pistol.

    A shotgun licence is different, there are no variations, you can go and buy any shotgun, any calibre, as many as you can store.

    BUT if it can hold more than three shells it becomes a firearm, with all of the restrictions.

    Can't think of anything else off hand, but I'm sure there are more idiotic rules I've missed.

    Oh yeah, any type of 'carry' except at an approved range or hunting ground (or secure carry to a range) is illegal and will probably get you shot.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  7. Corrado

    Corrado

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    I'm moving to the Czech Republic!
     
  8. raven11

    raven11

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    since i still have family over there
    [​IMG]

    • Firearms, Ammunition, Explosive Articles and Fireworks and Imitation of Firearms Act, B.E. 2490 (1947)
    • Munitions of War Control Act, B.E. 2530 (1987)
    • Decree on the Export Control of Armaments and Material, B.E. 2535 (1992)
    • Order of the National Administrator Reform Committee No.37 (October 1976)
    • Ministerial Regulation No.12 (1981), issued under the Firearms, Ammunitions, Explosives, Fireworks and Firearm Equivalents Act 1947
    • Ministerial Regulation No.1 (1977), issued under the Order of the National Administrative Reform Committee No. 37
    • Ministerial Regulation No.2 (1977), issued under the Order of the National Administrative Reform Committee No. 37
    • Ministerial Regulation No.3 (1977), issued under the Order of the National Administrative Reform Committee No. 37
    • Ministerial Regulation No.4 (1977), issued under the Order of the National 3
    • Administrative Reform Committee No. 37
    • Act Controlling Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, Fireworks and Imitation of Firearms No.4 (1967)
    • Notification of the Ministry of Interior. Appointment of Registrars, Officers and Officials under the Firearms, Ammunitions, Explosives, Fireworks and Imitation of Firearms Act 1947
    In summary, a foreigner in Thailand is unable to carry a firearm, without express permission, which is very rarely granted. For a Thai citizen, they must show themselves to be good members of the community, show cause for issuance of the licence, and I seem to recall show or pay a specific sum {see below} for a firearm licence to be provided. As in other countries the regulations specify class of weapon, including shot-guns, small bore rifles, hand guns etc..

    From a report submitted by the Thai authorities to the UN, in 2005:-

    Any person who desires to possess small arms (pistols) must obtain permission from the authorities concerned. In Bangkok, the Commissioner General of the Royal Thai Police is
    responsible for granting permit licenses of gun possession. An inter-agency, committee, comprising agencies such as the Office of Narcotics Control Board, the Ministry of
    Interior, the Ministry of Defence, the Office of the Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police, will be set up to verify the qualification of each applicant. Then, the persons
    who have authority to grant permit license are the Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police and provincial governors. Permit licenses can be cancelled any time when the licensee is proven to have committed a crime or to have used guns inappropriately. The person whose license was cancelled will never be granted a permit license again.

    The Ministry of Interior released the ministerial order on 29 May 2003 to suspend the permit license granting for all types of rifle temporarily due to the increasing number of
    crime cases caused by small arms and according to the government policy to suppress firearms, illegal arms, and organised crime. Such authorisation must be given by the
    Minister of Defence.

    For a civilian who wishes to obtain a possessing license, he/she has to be over 35 years old and possess a saving account more than 1 million Baht at least 6 months. In case an
    applicant for a permit license owns a business or is a company manager, the registered capital must be at least 10 million Baht. In addition, this act states that any government officer who desires to carry government issued guns and ammunitions out of the office in a non-emergency case has to ask for permission from the head of the agency, and must have the letter of permission at hand.

    The Ministry of Interior has proposed new Amnesty Act to exempt penalties to any person possessing illegal arms in order to help reduce the number of illegal arms possession in the country. At present, this Act has not yet been endorsed but is in the final review process.{2005, don't recall that it happened} However, Thailand has enacted the Amnesty Acts six times in the past, namely, in 1948, 1958, 1975, 1987, 1992 and 2000.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    the legal weapons market is high priced with legal revolvers costing twice what they would over here, also for a Thai buying a 1,000 case of 9mm is strange, makes people think your trying to start your own milita.when i was in the store people bought their bullets 3-5 at a time.
    the Illegal weapons market is where most buy theirs at , usually because you can find the rare weapons and you can haggle down the price with the dealers
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  9. Aces and 8s

    Aces and 8s Dead Mans Hand

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    Mexico? For citizens? Non citizens?

    Curious as a vacation to Mejico would be nice, but with the recent string of kidnapping and broad daylight murders/hold ups I wouldnt mind having a little buddy on my hip during vacation.
     
  10. Glockdude1

    Glockdude1 Federal Member CLM

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    Very interesting thread.

    :cool:
     
  11. Just1More

    Just1More

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    Any gang bangers in the Czech Republic?
     
  12. PSUEng

    PSUEng

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    Don't even think about it. At the border, there are huge signs: Guns and Ammo strictly forbidden in Mexico . I've learned in my travels there that guns and ammo in the possession of foreigners is strictly forbidden. I believe Mexican citizens can easily buy non-military caliber weapons & ammo, but they have to go to a state store to do so legally--there are no "gun shops" as we know them. So, .380 ACP, shotgun are OK--but no 9mm, .223, etc. Now, I don't know if they need a permit to carry or what--but I've been told you cannot carry legally. I'm sure someone else will chime in with more facts. I personally would not carry into Mexico--driving or not--due to the variation in law enforcement from town to town. You might end up in a very bad prison, under a completely different set of laws you know nothing about.
     
  13. -gunut-

    -gunut-

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    Not really. The Czech Republic has a pretty low crime rate. Violent crime is pretty rare. Hell, the cops in Prague do not even wear body armor!

    The Czech Republic does have a theft problem, though. Cars are a big target. The ones that know what's up usually take precautions. My wife's father just removes the fuse to the ignition when he goes in for the night :rofl:


    ETA: The Czech Republic has ruffly 25% the number of murders per capita, compared to the US.

    ETA2: The Czech Republic has ruffly 1/2 the amount of total crime, compared to the US (total crime rate, adjusted per capita).
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  14. RyanSBHF

    RyanSBHF Senior Member

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    Gun Laws in Italy:

    Italian citizens don't have a constitutional Right to keep and bear arms, yet the right to possess firearms is granted by law and subordinated to the release of a license from Police authorities. The applicant for such license must be 18 years old or up, demonstrate to be capable to handle and use a firearm safely (condition which can be demonstrated either with a certification of non-dishonorable military discharge, or with a proper certificate released by a shooting range after a training course), not to have a criminal record, and not to be mentally ill or a known abuser of, or addict to, alcohol and illegal drugs; other obstative conditions include living with persons who may access the firearms and who may abuse of them (i.e., having family members who are mentally ill, alcoholic or drug-addicted). With any authorization, an Italian citizen can detain up to three common firearms, being most of handguns and all those long arms not categorized by law as "sporting" or "hunting" weapons; up to six sporting firearms, being these all those firearms that have been specifically engineered and/or manufactured for competition shooting; and an unlimited number of Hunting firearms, being these all shotguns with a barrel longer than 30 cm and all rifles and carbines which have a barrel longer than 30 cm and fire an ammunition that has either a bullet of a caliber equal to 5,6 mm and a case no shorter than 40 mm, or an ammunition that has a bullet of a caliber superior to 5,6 mm and a case of any length (even shorter than 40 mm). Licenses do not specify the kind of firearms that can be obtained with them but the use that can be made of them; with a hunting license, to be mated with a specific hunting practice permit released by the Region of residence, citizens can purchase any firearm but carry (the Italian law defines carrying a firearm as having a firearm loaded and ready to use on the person, while any other kind of firearm carry is legally defined as transport) only hunting firearms during the season and in the areas where hunting is allowed. With a sporting license, citizens are allowed to transport (unloaded and stored in a locked case) firearms from their home to an authorized shooting range or to another safe place to practice shooting, which, in case of a private place, must be well away from roads and inhabited areas, and not accessible by unauthorized individuals. A concealed carry license allows a citizen to carry a firearm (generally an handgun) on his person for personal defense; this is usually hard to obtain, must be renewed yearly (while the other licenses are valid for 6 years), and requires the applicant to demonstrate to have a valid reason to carry a gun concealed, i.e., a dangerous occupation (typically a salesperson of sensitive goods such as jewelry). All licenses, however, authorize the holder to bring one's firearms to shooting ranges for target practice, and to use one's firearms for home or property protection. Another kind of license, the Firearms Collection license allows the holder to purchase unlimited numbers of any firearm, yet they have to be kept in a proper safe room and can not be used in any case, and no purchase of ammunition can be made for them.

    Italian gun laws pose restrictions to the kind of firearms and calibers available to civilians. Full-automatic/select-fire firearms (machineguns), grenade launchers and destructive devices are forbidden; prohibited calibers include the 9mm Parabellum (with the exception of a Simth & Wesson Revolver, but only using bare lead bullets) and all those ammunitions specifically engineered for military purposes (such as 5.7x28mm, 4.6x30mm, .50-BMG and up), while standard military calibers such as 5.56x45mm NATO and 7.62x51mm NATO are available in civilian loads and with civilian denominations (such as .223 Remington, .308 Winchester). Military-style semi-automatic firearms are normally available to license holders without any additional restriction. Restrictions to the capacity of firearms include a maximum capacity of 15 rounds for handguns (applied only since 2004), a maximum capacity of 5 rounds (sometimes 10 rounds or even more according to some specific case) for non-smoothbore long arms (rifles and carbines), while no nominal capacity limit for shotguns exists. Restrictions to the ownership of ammunitions include a maximum of 1500 shotgun shells and/or rifle/carbine cartridges, and a maximum of 200 rounds of pistol ammunitions, which can be elevated to 1500 if the license holder owns a hunting firearm (carbine) in such calibers. All limits can be exceeded purported than a proper license from the prefect is obtained.

    According to a 2007 poll commissioned by the Italian consumers association Altroconsumo, the per capita gun ownership rate in Italy ranges between 8,7% and 10%. All firearms in private hands must be registered with the police offices of the town of residence within 48 hours from the purchase; in case of inability to do so, the time limit can be elevated up to one week if the owner can send within 48 hours a "pre-registration" to communicate to the police authorities the purchase of said firearm, in the form of an electronic document whose reception by the receiver can be certified (typically via fax or e-mail).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law#Italy
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2010
  15. -gunut-

    -gunut-

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    Dude...

     
  16. dnuggett

    dnuggett PRO 2A

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    I would so like to read those Italy laws, but I can't struggle through all that.
     
  17. Azjeeper

    Azjeeper

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    Mexico allows Americans to import shotguns for hunting but your limited to the amount of shells you can bring. Mexico has excellent wing shooting, I do not think you can really get the papers for a pistol or most center fire rifles most Americans who hunt deer or sheep south of the border use a bow or muzzle loader. I have seen air guns for sale in Mexico in some shops.
     
  18. Corrado

    Corrado

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    Yes, please put some spaces between paragraphs - I want to decide if I should move to Italy!
     
  19. Cherokee Slim

    Cherokee Slim

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    It's really not that hard. You can't import handguns, but can find pretty much whatever you want there. I worked there for 10 years. You should join a hunting & fishing club for contacts. Foreigners can't carry concealed, but can transport to ranges. I joined two clubs in Monterrey and had access to more handguns than I could shoot. After you find a gun you want, you just take it to the nearest military base. They have an office who will register it to you and give you all your paperwork on the spot. No computers, all done with a typewriter. Records stored in boxes.
    Cherokee Slim
     
  20. Cherokee Slim

    Cherokee Slim

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    And then there is Peru, where I work now. Five different backround checks are required for a license. One is a psych test, which amounted to paying for it and getting a generic certificate with my name one it. Three of the others can be gotten in one day, the last one takes 2 weeks. Then you pay for the gun, take the receipt and the 5 backround checks to DISCAMEC (National Police agency who regulates firearms) and in two weeks you have a license for that gun, and a permission sheet to buy ammo. I can carry concealed anywhere not posted in the country, and give the pistols to the pilot of an airplane in a locked box to fly in country. Choices outside of Lima are somewhat limited, I have a Taurus PT58HC+ in .380 and a Taurus PT-22. In Lima you can get Walthers, the Glock .380 and others but's it a pain to have to travel up there.
    Cherokee Slim