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Gun Ban Debate (again!)

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by VICARA, Nov 29, 2006.

  1. VICARA

    VICARA

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    Politicians are at it again!. Who else is on the same rank with Pimentel who concluded that availability of guns equates to high criminality? OMG, what a truckload of $*&^%@! He/They should look into the effects of gun laws of Florida, Nevada, Vermont, just to name a few...

    I bet these are the same guys who will keep their goons, (aka bodyguards with FAs) even during the ban. And this Andy Feria fella, he must be a BOG member!

    Truth be told, these skirmishes of both camps are already 'nakakasawa na'. Its a debate that has been going on for too long. Regardless of Pimentels or Bradys or Pilatos, I will continue to carry my guns. Whats your take?

    Story below:
    Gun Ban Opposed
     
  2. batangueno

    batangueno Shock Resist

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  3. HEAVY

    HEAVY "Verify!"

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    +1 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
     
  4. bikethief

    bikethief itchy trigger

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    Excellent flow of reasoning! I love the analogy of the bank guard vs. the responsible parent.
     
  5. HEAVY

    HEAVY "Verify!"

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    mr. feria had a very lucid argument. and backs it up with statistics and very clear analogies.

    mr. pimentel on the other hand....
     
  6. pipo

    pipo

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    is a relic or the martial law era.........
     
  7. cebuboy

    cebuboy toy soldier

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    why is it that the legal gun owners are being picked on??
     
  8. Kaiser Soze

    Kaiser Soze Notorious

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    Legal gun owners can buy firearms at high prices, therefore, we also have the assets that the BG's can steal...unarming us makes relieving us of our hard earned cash and property much easier.

    At least some politicians are using their noggins! Cebu's Tom Osmena opposes the proposed 2 week gun ban in his city during the Asean Summit:


    Gun ban won’t help keep summit secure: mayor


    CEBU City Mayor Tomas Osmeña will not object to the possible exemption of some bank employees from the four-day Asean holiday, but he is opposed to the proposed gun ban during the summit.

    Osmeña said Police Regional Office (PRO) 7 Director Silverio Alarcio’s proposal is “dumb,” especially since criminal elements will surely not comply with the ban.

    The mayor does not believe that imposing a gun ban during the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) summit next month will help make the event peaceful.

    Danger

    “Of course not, it won’t help ensure peace and order, it will only increase the danger. You think it’s going to help? Don’t forget that criminals don’t follow a gun ban…. We have people who have their heads in the sky thinking they can regulate criminals,” he said.

    Alarcio has proposed to PNP Chief Oscar Calderon that a gun ban be implemented in Cebu from Dec. 1 to 14 for a peaceful summit.

    If the proposal is approved, only the military, policemen on duty and other individuals involved in the summit security will be allowed to carry firearms.

    “I find it stupid that some people think that those with license to carry firearms will be the ones who will terrorize. Some people just have a distorted idea that criminals will obey the law... You think the criminals will say ‘Ah, let’s not carry our firearms because there’s a gun ban.’ If you ask me, it’s a really dumb idea,” Osmeña said.

    He further said that if he had his way, he will impose a gun ban on visiting military and police personnel who are detailed here for the summit, “and maybe we’ll feel safer.”

    The mayor’s comments came days after Army men were accused of attacking a policeman who issued them a traffic violation ticket in Lapu-Lapu City.

    Two weeks ago, three members of the Marines also got into trouble with the police when they refused to pay for their drinks at a bar in Lapu-Lapu.

    In a news conference yesterday, Osmeña said he will not object to the bankers’ request to be exempted from the Dec. 11 to 14 holidays during the Asean summit.

    If they decide to work during the holidays, the few bank employees will not have any impact on the congestion or decongestion of the city, he said.

    “That’s fine with me, it’s perfectly all right. I think it’s a good idea because we’re only talking about one percent of 100 who will stay behind and by letting them go away, it won’t have an impact. I don’t think it’s worthwhile to have a dispute on that,” he further said.

    Committee

    Besides, he added, if some banks have to operate during the summit, it will need only a few employees to collect and disperse cash to its clients.

    Meanwhile, the Lapu-Lapu City Government wants an ad hoc committee created to address problems involving the police and the military deployed in Cebu for the summit.

    In a resolution approved last Wednesday, the City Council requesting police and military authorities to immediately establish an ad hoc coordination unit for administrative and disciplinary matters involving their own personnel.

    The body will also serve as an avenue for residents to air their complaints against erring Asean summit security personnel, the resolution said.

    The resolution, however, was silent on whether the two will be conducting joint patrols.

    Copies of the resolution were furnished to Ambassador Marciano Paynor, secretary general of the 12th Asean summit national organizing committee; PNP Deputy Director General Isidro Lapeña; Cebu Provincial Police Office Director Vicente Loot; and Lapu-Lapu City Police Chief Louie Oppus.

    In an interview, Lapeña, commander of the PNP Task Force Asean Summit, said he welcomes the suggestion but pointed out that Police Regional Office (PRO) 7 Chief Silverio Alarcio Jr. and Central Command Chief Cardozo Luna have already come up with a similar scheme.

    Lapeña said the police and the military are conducting joint beat patrols in Mandaue, Lapu-Lapu and Cebu cities.

    The joint patrol was launched last Nov. 7 at the PRO 7 grounds.

    Alarcio, for his part, also welcomed the suggestion of the City Council, saying this will work well for all uniformed security personnel for the summit.

    As for the joint patrol, Alarcio said the one that was just launched is composed of three policemen and three military men working on three eight-hour shifts a day.

    Aside from requesting for an ad hoc committee, the resolution also mentioned the two incidents involving military personnel.

    Isolated

    Lapeña said elevating the case before the Office of the Ombudsman-Visayas is better, even as he stressed that these incidents were isolated ones.

    The resolution, however, expressed apprehension that filing of charges against those involved might just result in animosity between the two groups.

    “It could be) the beginning of what could be a season of violence for which the City of Lapu-Lapu could turn out to be an unwilling host, rather than be a proud venue of the Asean Summit,” the resolution stated, adding that if left unattended, the conflicts could seriously jeopardize summit preparations.

    Lapeña also assured that the previous incidents will not happen again as the joint patrol will deal with erring personnel.
    “Simple lang, kung mahuli sila, they will be turned over to their unit for investigation,” Lapeña said.

    Alarcio said the military and the police have their respective internal disciplinary office to take care of their erring personnel.

    While the resolution did not say who will compose the coordinating body, it hinted that the Lapu-Lapu City Police Office will be given preference to assume the functions. (LCR/OCP)

    http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/ce....ban.won.t.help.keep.summit.secure.mayor.html


    Related Story:
    http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/ceb/2006/11/13/sports/rama.tommy.gunning.down.a.ban.html
     
  9. anticentipede

    anticentipede IN GOD WE TRUST

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    The PNP should just forget about all this gun licensing and permit to carry nonsense, they should just follow the American model( for some American states that is)

    If you are just going to keep you gun at home, then there should be no need for licensing of any kind, just registration, and there should be no waiting period too, that would make it cheaper and easier for people to own guns( and more importantly stock guns) at home.

    And for concealed carry, they should just issue you a concealed carry permit if you have no criminal record of any kind. That would also make it easier and cheaper to carry a gun with you for self defense, and the best part is you can carry more than one gun.

    And they should make carrying knives legal, that would also allow citizens to better defend themselves.

    If we had the American setup here, i would probably own a number of guns by now.
     
  10. anticentipede

    anticentipede IN GOD WE TRUST

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    Instead of amending the constitution to promote something silly and stupid like that parliamentary federal system nonsense, people should just concentrate on amending the constitution to finally put, our God-given right to own and bear weapons for self defense, in writing, in our constitution.


    And another thing, the PNP should revise the current rules on concealed carry, i mean they're going to arrest you just because some idiot saw your gun! Even though you didn't use the gun to do anything wrong! That's just stupid!! Brandishing is one thing, but someone accidentally seeing is another matter altogether!

    Another thing about the current concealed carry rule that should be changed is that stupid rule that you can only use your gun if the attacker is armed, that is just stupid and ridiculous, in most knife attacks, the one being attacked doesn't even know if the attacker had a knife or not, until after they have already been stabbed!!


    The first rule of self defense is when attacked always assume the attacker is out to murder you and always assume the attacker is armed!

    And supposing the attcker isn't armed, why shouldn't i be allowed to shoot him if i can? this stupid rule means i have to go hand to hand or use a non-lethal weapon when i am attacked even though i have a better and more effective self defense option!!

    What if the attacker is bigger than me? Rules like this are just stupid and should be abolished.
     
  11. wingz

    wingz speed not power

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    “If a bank guard can carry a gun to protect his employer’s money, why can’t parents be legally armed to protect their children inside and outside their home?” - Andy Feria

    No more questions your honor....:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
     
  12. New_comer

    New_comer

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    Enough said... :supergrin:
     
  13. jasonub

    jasonub

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    Is an old fart that should be ignored.:animlol: As for the american model on guns, the PNP will not have enough funds to exist. they get a lot of funds through licensing and ptc and not to forget. gun amnesty
     
  14. Alexii

    Alexii Janeway Forever

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    I once crossed paths with an AIM professor named Andy Ferreria. I wondered if Feria is just a typo error. Anyway, whoever he is, we should invite the man to at least post here in GT if not meet him in person.
     
  15. isuzu

    isuzu

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    Andy Feria is a very good friend from Bacolod. He, and a lot of our contemporaries had tough times during the height of the insurgency in the late 80's.

    Pimintel's statements are synonymous to what other oppositionist want: we will only have the priviledge to keep and carry guns; you don't.

    While firearms are regulated under GMA's rule, we still get to keep and carry them. Some of GMA's relatives are gun enthusiasts as well as Mike Arroyo's relatives, the Tuasons.
     
  16. coopal_131

    coopal_131

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    1. You want to shoot an unarmed person?

    2. You want to be able to shoot an unarmed attacker because you can?

    3. You want the rules changed just in case the attacker is bigger than you?

    WOW!
    Any comments? Does this mean you all agree with him then?
     
  17. darwin25

    darwin25 Make your move

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    Actually I do.

    His arguments is very valid. But the validity of ones actions against an unarmed attacker will depend on the circumstances during the attack. What if you are crippled and you are still attacked? A bigger unarmed attacker can cause you serious bodily injury and even death especially if you have an existing medical condition. Dapat nga bigya ng special privileges ang mga crippled to be armed because they are the ones who are usually subject to attack because they are weak and vulnerable. Criminals always choose a vulnerable target and those who can't defend themselves. What if during an attack, the unarmed guy suddenly gets hold of a blunt weapon? It may be too late for you to draw your own weapon.

    You should first learn to consider your own survival before your attacker's if I may say so. You should expect your attacker to be armed even if you do not see a wesapon. Obviously, you haven't been attacked yet or found youself in a self defense situation hence your point of view
     
  18. coopal_131

    coopal_131

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    You are very quick in making that judgement/assumption but you are dead wrong. Yes, I have been attacked before, but (luckily) it did not involve shooting. Fire was put out before it got ugly. I guess we live in different worlds, different outlook in life. Where I come from, they don't issue carry permits based on your height, shoe size or social status - they issue it to you because you are qualified in accordance with the local law. I carry for defensive, not offensive purposes. And please, spare me the "the best defense is a good offense" principle.
     
  19. darwin25

    darwin25 Make your move

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    If it did not get ugly, then its not a self defense situation. Experience taught me to differentiate between those who talk based on experience and those who talk based on opinions.

    And who said where we come from we issue carry permits based on height, shoe size or social status? And oh yeah, sorry permits are issued kung may pera ka. Yun nga ang problema e. Yung qualification process ang problema. AFAIK, if your physically disabled, you cant own a gun. Oh yeah guns are licensed ased on your physical capability. What an irony, you lose the right to self defense just because you got crippled.

    And you are putting words in my mouth. I did not say the best defense is a good offense. Most of us here know when to draw and shoot and some of us actually did. Most of us here know what is reasonable use of force. I think your rationalizing anticiepede's post based on your limited understanding of what he posted. Dont think that your opinions are the only sensible ones based on your own assumptions and experiences.
     
  20. Kaiser Soze

    Kaiser Soze Notorious

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    Shooting an unarmed attacker will always make the shooter look bad, but how would you determine he's unarmed in the first place?

    I agree that one should assume that the attacker does have murderous intent and could be armed. Who knows, that guy could very well be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs etc and could be concealing a bladed weapon, or his own firearm. Like darwin said, it depends on the circumstances involved.

    I'm not saying shoot first, ask questions later, what I'm saying is if I was given a choice between shooting an unarmed (we're assuming the guy is unarmed) person and protecting my family or person from bodily harm or even death, I'd pick shooting him.

    If he was armed with a knife, I wouldn't pull out my own knife or baton, I would still use my advatange of having a firearm on my person to neutralize the threat. That's why we all carry firearms - to be used to neuralize threats in self defense of person, loved ones, or property.