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GSSF Reloading question

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by OMF64, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. OMF64

    OMF64

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    I know this is not the reloading forum however my reloading question only pertains to shooting GSSF so I felt I should ask it here. I have shot a couple GSSF Matches on the "Left Coast" and noticed some of the competitors who reload also sort their brass by head stamp. Now I know in rifle shooting this can be critical however for shooting GSSF say in 9mm do you get any benefit from sorting and shooting by head stamp.

    Thanks in advance for tolerating my probably stupid question.

    Cisco
     
  2. Noponer

    Noponer

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    I say it is not necessary. I often use the same headstamp because I have batches I have purchased together, but usually do not sort. I will kick out a certain brand if I have problems. For instance, the last rounds I made keep getting primers damaged in the Sellier & Bellot cases in that batch, so I went though the remainder & tossed them. I have not had problems with S&B before, but have most often used them for .45 acp.

    I believe you will get more inconsistency because of bullet weight & powder variances than you will because of case differences.

    As you said, this is not bench rest shooting.
     

  3. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    I really don't know for sure IF there is any benefit or not. When I started shooting GSSF about 11 years ago a wise man once told me that I should sort my brass and shoot all the same head stamp. At that time I was shooting a G22/27 and 24C and tried to shoot all Winchester Brass. I felt my loads were more consistant feeling although my scores couldn't prove anything. I now shoot all 9mm (G17C, 19 and 26) and just out of habit I have continued to sort and shoot all the same head stamp, of course even now my scores are not proof that it makes any difference. So I am not sure. Gues I could stop sorting my brass and shoot whatever comes down the reloading chute. Having said that I do not reload S&B or Amerc as both have been problematic any time I tried to reload one.

    Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

    Don
     
  4. ron59

    ron59 Bustin Caps

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    I'm pretty sure Sellier & Bellot cases have a crimped primer, and thus the difficulty inserting primers. I don't even mess with that stuff, as it's nothing but problems... the same with WCC.

    After cleaning my brass, I hand examine each one. I shine a small flashlight into each one, to insure there's not any media or other junk left inside... if there were to be some, that would cause pressures to spike possibly causing issues.

    I further examine the case looking for splits/cracks etc, then throw into one of 3 bins... WIN, BLAZER, and all others. I have lots of Win, lots of Blazer, and then just a bunch of other stuff. I usually use the mixed stuff for my practice,and either the Win or Blazer for competitions.

    It probably doesn't make a big difference, but it doesn't take much additional time for me to "sort", the case examination thing is what I'm really concerned with. This way, I KNOW that I am using a consistent as possible load for competitions.

    I guess I'm a *little* anal about my loads, because after I've produced my ammo, I also hand gauge each and every one. These two procedures, case prep before and quality control after, do add additional time to my reloading.... but I want to do as much as possible to insure I have trouble free rounds, ESPECIALLY with my competition stuff.

    Just my $.02.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  5. DWARREN123

    DWARREN123 Grumpy Old Guy

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    I don't shoot GSSF but I do use only two brands of brass for reloading 40 S&W. I like R-P best then 2nd is Win. I have had less problems (almost none) with R-P and very few with Win.
    I do not mix them in my pistols.
    Just my experience.
     
  6. TJC

    TJC "No Compromise" Millennium Member

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    When I was shooting GSSF and even back in my IPSC days, I always sorted my brass.
    I used nothing but 1 brand, 1x fired for the GSSF matches. Same went for IPSC.

    Did I have to? No
    Did it help? Not sure but my scores weren't bad in either discipline.

    One thing for sure if you sort, you are getting brass made by the same company, which will be pretty close to the same thickness etc. This helps when trying to develop loads within a certain velocity or power factor.
    Different mfg'ers brass can vary quite a bit in thickness which will affect the velocities and pressures.

    I used the same brand brass, same bullets, powder and primers all the time.
    Only difference I would make was my practice brass was not 1x fired. And not always the same brand although my practice loads were sorted by brass mfg.

    Like I said, may not be as critical as loading super accurate rifle rounds.
    But it did keep my GSSF match loads within very tight tolerances and performance levels.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  7. ede

    ede Bama's Friend

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    i don't, you be the judge if my scores reflect a need to or not.
     
  8. OMF64

    OMF64

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    Thanks for everyone who passed along their thoughts. There seems to be enough support for doing this to make me want to give it a try. I will start sorting tomorrow and see if I can really see or feel and difference.

    Again, thanks for allowing me to ask the question and for posting your thoughts.

    Cisco
     
  9. Noponer

    Noponer

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    Ron -

    Good theory, but I had some NATO marked cases in the batch, & they took the new primers OK. NATO rounds are crimped, right? I cannot detect a crimp the the deprimed S&B cases (cannot feel a rim or punch marks).

    My caliper shows the primer pocket diameter in the S&B cases to be a couple of thousandths smaller than the Winchester, Speer, etc., including the NATO cases. I notice that depriming the S&B cases takes more force (I just now tried a few of the ones I trashed & compared them to others).

    What's wrong with WCC? It's Winchester (military version?). I have never had problems with WCC myself.
     
  10. ron59

    ron59 Bustin Caps

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    When I had problems with S&B, I did this google:
    "Sellier & Bellot 9mm primer crimp"
    and saw lots of other folks with the same problem. Whether it is actually a military crimp or just a smaller hole... it's problematic. Enough such for me I don't reload it.

    The same with WCC. There might be different "types" of WCC, but I basically have had the same issues with it as I did S&B... it didn't want to take a primer. I reload with a 550B, not sure if you use a different setup and see different results. I use the same google as above, I see lots of references to it indeed having a military crimp? And any brass with a military crimp will be problematic unless it is swaged. Swaging punches out the primer hole so it is okay... perhaps you "recovered" some where it had already been swaged or something ?
     
  11. bustedknee

    bustedknee The Snowflakes have invaded GT

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    One maker's brass can have a higher or lower capacity than the next maker's brass due to thickness of the material at the base.

    Consequently the same load can cause a different pressure in different maker's brass.

    Point of impact can change. Even a dangerous over-charge can occur.

    Seperate each brand into lots then load some test rounds. Test each lot for velocity and signs of pressure.
     
  12. JML2365

    JML2365

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    GSSF matches are "lost brass" matches. I have heard of some people reloading the brass that they want to git rid of (end of reloading life etc) and shoot it at the match since they can't pick it up.
     
  13. Noponer

    Noponer

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    I am not doubting your word, Ron... just trying to learn.

    I have been reloading since 1993, also with a 550B. As I said, I have not had a problem with WCC or S&B before that I can remember but, as I also said, most was .45acp & a fair amount of .40. Most of the 9x19 I have loaded was in recent years & I have had more trouble with it than .45 or .40... maybe the problems were with S&B & WCC & I did not notice. I will keep an eye on that.

    You going to the GSSF match at Anniston?
     
  14. Noponer

    Noponer

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    The case volume differences are certain, but the amount should be negligible. Technically, the pressures would be different, but I doubt that any shooter could tell the difference without extensive comparison.

    I futher believe that a "dangerous over-charge" - caused by the difference in case volume - would occur only if the charge were pushed to the limit, & already on the edge danger.
     
  15. ron59

    ron59 Bustin Caps

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    It's possible that, in other calibers, the S&B and WCC aren't the same as with 9mm? I only have experience with 9mm, although I've loaded 13,000+ rounds in under a year. Early on, I didn't examine my brass, nor did I sort it. Whenever I came across a piece of "difficult" brass I would check the headstamp, and started seeing the trend of those two giving me troubles, and then I did the Google searches I mentioned.

    In the reloading forum, there's a sticky about "good vs. bad" brass to reload, the S&B is listed under the "junk" category with a comment about the primer pocket. So... I dunno. Maybe you're just lucky? :supergrin: If it works for you, load it! I'm all about brass these days. I have almost a 5 gallon bucket full of .40, another bucket 3/4 full of .45ACP, and don't have a gun for either. But one day....:cool:

    Well, I haven't sent my entry from for Anniston, but I plan on going! Are you going to be there Ken?
     
  16. Butch

    Butch RetiredDinosaur CLM Millennium Member

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    I do sort, and more importantly, inspect my brass, but I don't separate commercial US made cases (R-P, Win, Fed, Speer etc). I do cull S&B cases but keep them till I get enough, and then load them specifically to shoot them at a match (then I don't have to load them again).

    I cull the S&B's due to the smaller primer pocket thing as they tend to screw up the 'momentum' of the reloading process.....something just doesn't feel 'right' when you suddenly hit a S&B case.....but if you load all the S&B cases at the same time, they're all pretty much the same and it doesn't cause the problem.

    I cull ALL foreign military brass to the brass bucket, and hang onto US military brass to swage the crimp out of the primer pockets before loading them for matches, but I wait till I have a bunch of them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2010
  17. JML2365

    JML2365

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    I wasn't going to mention any names :whistling:
     
  18. Noponer

    Noponer

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    Thanks for the brass info, Ron.

    Same here... entry form filled out for Anniston, but not sent in yet - probably tomorrow. Hope to see you there!
     
  19. gary newport

    gary newport

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    I never bothered sorting .45 ACP...until I ran into a major malfunction caused by an A-MERC case! For the most part, I haven't sorted 9mm. However, after finding an A-MERC case in my 9mm brass and after enountering refusal-to-reprime with numerous Federal NT 9mm cases, I'm rethinking my process!

    I plan to cull, rather than sort, discarding malicious brass.
     
  20. DEJ/FL

    DEJ/FL Millennium Member

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    Some of the Seller & Belloit 9MM brass is a steel case with a brass coating.:wow:
    A magnet passing over the container of brass will help cull these cases out.

    Dan:cool: