GSSF at Topton, PA

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by kilr318, Jul 24, 2007.

  1. kilr318

    kilr318

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    Hi guys, it's been a long absence on the forum for me. The time of year is fast approaching August 18-19, 2007, which will be the weekend for the Keystone State Ballistic Challenge in Topton, PA. This marks 10 consecutive years of Topton hosting the GSSF, but it will be hard to top last year's record turnout. Around 320 entries put us near the top of the heap for all of 2006. We cannot duplicate that effort without the commitment of enough volunteer range staff to get the job done. Each year, I have been lucky to recruit a friendly, efficient staff, and I am asking for volunteers again this year. In addition to the usual GLOCK shirts, hats and freebie offers, Topton always makes an effort to provide the most GLOCK certificates possible to the staff. Join the team this year and help me run one last GSSF. That's right...2007 will be my last year as Match Director at Topton. I have a replacement selected, but we still have to organize another great GSSF before I leave. You can reach me at 610-970-5266, or by email at [email protected] to volunteer. Hope to hear from you soon!
    Dave Miller, MD, Topton Action & Practical Shooters
     
  2. glockess56

    glockess56 CLM

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    I hope stages won't take 4.5 hours to wait this year. When someone shoots two categories, steps out he/she is supposed to shoot again after one person, not 21! Yes, you needed ROs last year on a Saturday, but when people were approached to do that, they were turned away. I hope this year runs smoother and more efficiently than last year.
     

  3. FESTUS

    FESTUS Guest

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    Amen.....you had 11 ro's on Saturday and score sheets were distributed @ 9:40 am....I along with several people offered to help as well but were declined....I've decided on NOT driving the 12 hours one way and will skip this match ...Good Luck.:supergrin:
     
  4. DEJ/FL

    DEJ/FL Millennium Member

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    I flew up from Florida last year and I am not able to return this year. I wish you the best for a good turn out of RO's and competitors!

    Dan:cool:
     
  5. ede

    ede

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    i had similar experiences as the other posters last year. i'd love to RO but i doubt i could manage getting 4 days in a row off and it'll take me one day to shoot.
     
  6. Norske

    Norske Millennium Member

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    Yes, and did you take that problem to the Rangemaster so he could do something about correcting the errant Range Officer?

    :headscratch:
     
  7. Ghost361

    Ghost361

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    Truly unfortunate as the facility was very nice but we also will not be returning. Our decision has a lot to do with the long waits and inconsistancies by some of the RO's. But I hope it all gets ironed out. If this year seems to go better for those who attend maybe we will try to put it on the list for next year again.
     
  8. BCarver

    BCarver CLM Millennium Member

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    This "old boy from Florida" will be flying into Philadelphia and then driving to Topton to shoot on Saturday. Yes, I was there last year and was in the lines, too. In fact, I helped paste and RO for most of the afternoon but had fun talking to old friends and making new friends during the process.

    Sometimes "things just happen" and I believe that this year's match will be another finely tuned match like all of the ones, prior to last year's match, that have given the GSSF Topton, PA match its fine reputation for being "a great match to attend". I feel that last year was an exception and in the past.

    I'll see you on the range, Saturday!!!

    Regards,
    Bobby Carver
     
  9. PPW III

    PPW III

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    very well said.. last year is in the past, lets have a smooth 2007..
     
  10. murph2127

    murph2127

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    I see the bashing of the RO's started off early this year.
     
  11. ede

    ede

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    murf it's never too early to bash the ROs.

    Hope to see you and melissa there again this year. you two truely made it an enjoyable experience for me.
     
  12. murph2127

    murph2127

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    Not sure if I'll be there this year. Working on a big project due in September, and that has to take priority. I am hoping that I will be caught up enough to be there, we'll see.

    Ted
     
  13. FESTUS

    FESTUS Guest

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    Murph...I believe Glockess and myself were eluding to how things started/did not start....I supervise 200 people their failure is due primarily to my lack of communication....Ro's are the mainstay of the games without them ...things turn into a disaster...if you recall while you were eating your pita bread sitting on the tailgate of your vehicle I commented on how we appreciated your efforts.Last year was last year and hopefully a learning experience,do not take these comments as directed to you...they were not....problems begin in the beginning and the few that were there, tried bravely to accomodate all those customers....keep the faith. :thumbsup:
     
  14. shootinglocks

    shootinglocks

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    i hope it will be a smooth match this year :thumbsup: i look foward to watching mr carver shoot again and visiting with the nice folks that regular that match. i talked my dad into coming. he was suppose to shoot jackson with me on fathers day weekend but something came up. this will be his first match.:shocked: the gssf crew will certainly make sure it goes smoothly.see you all at the range:wavey:
     
  15. murph2127

    murph2127

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    Well I took your friend's post as an RO bash.

    I have worked this match for about five years, maybe more. Glock changes the way they want us to manage the scoresheets nearly every year. They give us five minutes or so primer on how they want the sheets run. Now maybe they work on the assumption that the RO's are GSSF shooters and already know the system, or maybe they do not. But the fact is the local USPSA shooters end up working the match and for some odd reason, the hard core GSSF shooters seem to me to be more interested in shooting the match than working 2 days on the range and shooting the match sat afternoon in a state of exhaustion like the staff does. But back to the score sheets- the constant changes with little instruction makes for a sat AM learning curve. And this does cause some problems.

    I put up with a lot of crap last year from a lot of people who arrogantly kept telling me that I was doing a bad job, the match director was doing a bad job, and that everything is better in NJ/OH, wherever the last match was. I was pretty kind to those people, even to the one ahole who was so arrogant, rude and mean to my girlfriend to the point he made her cry. She did not feel comfortable being in the bay with this shooter so she left for lunch for a while until he left the bay. As a guest of Topton and a representative of GSSF in my role as RO, I did not do what I really wanted to do to that fellow, which is good as odds are it would have made the paper.

    Losing one plate rack due to a shooter driving the staff away did screw things up royally on the bay for all the waiting shooters, but since all the shooters witness to the event seemed to think that personally abusing the staff was acceptable, I felt no pity for them.

    Funny part is, for two hours, when I was down to myself scoring, running the timer, and resetting the steel- I could not even get a waiting shooter to pull the rope on the plate rack- so I don't know anything about people volunteering to work and being turned away. Didn't seem them. Everyone I asked was more interested in being part of the landscape than in being part of the solution.


    Volunteers should not be treated this way and frankly that is what I perceive as an issue within GSSF- the whiners that abuse the staff and are not kept in check by peer pressure from their fellow shooters. This would not play out this way in the other shooting diciplines I participate in. And this might be evidenced by the relatively low number of volunteers for last years match- The Word got out to those that may help that they won't be treated very well by some of the shooters and they decided they have something better to do that weekend. And to be honest, I wished I was one of them last year.

    This is a shame, as the main thing I like about working this match is being a happy witness to the new shooters who experience the GSSF match with wonder and awe. I really enjoy seeing them having a good time and being bit by the bug. For the most part, the odd brusque shooter doesn't wear away the fun of working the match, but I guess there is a limit to all things.

    Take what you want from this post but be mindful that I have run major matches with more shooters than most GSSF matches get, so I'm not exactly some rube speaking out of turn.

    Ted
     
  16. FESTUS

    FESTUS Guest

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    Ted...well put hopefully everyone reads and learns from what YOU and YOUR Girlfriend experienced. :
     
  17. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    The Topton match last year didn't receive a lot of positive comments, even from dye in the wool GSSF supporters. Maybe this year all the reports will be positive.

    As a matter of note to RO's, which I have done, a bad experience at a stage can set the tone as to how shooters respond for the rest of the match. Folks pay to come to a match, if things turn brown and smell bad they'll let you know. Now we all know there are RO's that don't make the grade and shooters you can never satisfy, it's all part of the game. Shooters are important to the maintaining GSSF as a viable entertainment forum. If a match venue can't provide sufficient RO's to make the match run smoothly then there's going to be problems. RO's are essential but they aren't the end all be all, especially if they run their segment like it was a USPSA or IDPA match. Everybody has to work to the same guidelines or there's going to be trouble. Scott or Chris, Cindy etc can only do so much.

    Expecting anything beyond pasting from shooters at a GSSF match is a mistake. But, not using experienced GSSF RO's and shooters like Bobby, Dan, Don and others is a mistake that can certainly not help you.

    Good luck with your match this year, may the RO's be plentiful, pleasant and the shooters gentlemen and ladies.

    edit for spelling
     
  18. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    Folks,

    Everyone has a bad day, bad weekend, bad month, bad year. I know I do, frequently too.

    Topton has traditionally been one of the great GSSF Matches, and one of my favorites. So they had a rough time last year. Well, it's a new year. Help them if you can. I've made an effort to get there on Friday afternoons to help them set up the stages. I always shot in a group with the Costanza Brothers, and we all took turns pasting at the Glock M and 5TG stages.

    Dave has done a fine but thankless job for many years. I had not planned to go to Topton this year, it being an 800 mile round trip, but I may try to go just to provide Dave some experienced help.

    Dave Miller is asking for help. Are you listening?
     
  19. murph2127

    murph2127

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    So civility is too much a stretch to ask for in a GSSF shooter? That was mostly my point in my above post. This is somewhat of a barb and I mean it somewhat tongue in cheek, but I thought your above statement did leave the door open for interpretation that the shooters should not be counted on for much, which seemed a bit sad.

    But your post is also very telling. GSSF is not much of a volunteer sport. I said for many years the sport always suffered from no type of internal infrastructure to recruit and train experienced staff. GSSF has always relied on the host clubs for this, and I think this is a mistake. I also find it odd that so few of the people that shoot GSSF regularly, (or possibly solely) find it worth their time to invest it in working matches.

    I do think their RO guide is a bit nicer than what it was, especially with it now detailing how to handle the scoresheets, but it still is not much. RO's seem to be an afterthought in this sport, and that is wrong.

    RO's are essential but they aren't the end all be all,

    Quite funny. Bet people line up to work matches you run.


    especially if they run their segment like it was a USPSA or IDPA match

    What do you mean by "running it like it was a USPSA or IDPA match? I have an idea of what you mean by this, but it is not flattering to GSSF.
     
  20. kilr318

    kilr318

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    Thanks to Ted, Danny and Bobby for keeping things even. Yes, there were RO issues last year with handling scoresheets. The hardest thing for me to figure out each year, though, is why GSSF shooters KNOWINGLY will pack Saturday so full that it creates backlogs, yet Sunday moves smoothly every year with lighter attendance. I'll never figure that out.

    As for Ted's analysis about shooters being reluctant to help, it's a generalization that holds some truth across all shooting disciplines, whether GSSF, USPSA/IPSC or IDPA. Some shooters feel that showing up is all that needs to happen for a match to take place regardless of discipline. All matches depend on volunteers, but those who don't volunteer don't really understand what it takes to make the match happen unless they have done it first-hand.

    I've been doing this 'event planning stuff' for over 10 years, and the struggle to get staff every year, year after year, just wears you down and burns you out. That's why I'm done after this year. Frankly, if this year doesn't start picking up with RO volunteers, I doubt there will be a GSSF at Topton next year. This year's match will tank without more staff volunteers. And for those shooters who are content to shoot-and-scoot, don't be surprised when the number of matches shrivels up. The rest of us who work the matches are just burned out. What a shame for the core who really enjoys what the matches are all about-shooting fun stages with friends, old and new, and trying to give your personal best performance no matter what.