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GSSF at Target World

Discussion in 'Ohio Glockers' started by joedoc, Mar 13, 2010.

  1. joedoc

    joedoc

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    Not a pretty performance, but I shot today at the GSSF---464/500.
    Have not practiced in a while and it shows.
    Anyway it was fun, not too crowded.
     
  2. South Fla

    South Fla ©South Fla 2018

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    Duh...
    Get used to never being in the top 5-6 finalist.

    There are 2-3 guys that shoot multiple guns (hence, multiple entries) that take all the plaques and the prizes and have since I started shooting there in 2005.

    Since they have multiple entries they always win the gun that is given away also.

    I know more than a few people that quit shooting Target World's GSSF because of it.

    If you are just there to punch paper and support Glock, you will have fun.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2010

  3. shadow_dog

    shadow_dog Hilljack

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    I shot yesterday. Done worse than usual. Guess it was not having shot in 5 or 6 months, or fatigue from working mega hours the last 3 months. Yeah I know, no excuses allowed.

    As far as the multiple entries, that is allowed per the GSSF rules. I am one of the people that shoot more than one pistol. When I shoot I just try to beat my personnal best. I could care less what the other shooters scores are. I use that approach when I shoot GSSF outdoor too. My PB at Target World is a 485 from a couple of years ago. At Aim High it is a 500 from back last summer. I wish Lauhorners and Vandalia Range still had GSSF matches. I used to shoot at those matches also.

    As far as winnings go, at the indoor shoots I have won a couple of plaques at Target World for C class and a pistol there about 3-4 years ago.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2010
  4. glockess56

    glockess56 CLM

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    I quit shooting at Target World when I can only shoot one model. The rule is one gun, one serial number, but I emailed them and said I had three G17s could I shoot them, as they are three separate guns. They said no, that I could only shoot one G17 one time for a score. So, to shoot one gun, it wasn't worth the two hour drive to Cincy. I used to shoot in it with a G17, G34 or G26, but now I don't have that many Glocks of different models, just serial numbers.
     
  5. joedoc

    joedoc

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    well, I should have taken more than one pistol, but I
    will try that next time.
    it was fun to shoot the GSSF again, and I don't expect to win anything with my marksmanship skills.
    my chances of shooting a 500 are about the same as my chances of dating Jessica Simpson.
    a little bit of practice would have gone a long way---I just forgot where to put my aim on those long shots with my G19---most of my 75 foot shots were high
     
  6. glockess56

    glockess56 CLM

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    Remember, you don't have to shoot a 500 to win something. The scores are based on the Lewis system of scoring, so there will be Class A - first second and third place; Class B - first second and third place; Class C - first second and third place. Plus there is a drawing for a Glock certificate. You just have to shoot two out of the three months it is going on. Good luck and let us know how you did after the series is over. I hope you place and win a Glock!
     
  7. X-Spec

    X-Spec

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    As mentioned above this is permitted by GSSF indoor rules.
    The reason given to me by Allen Ramsey of GSSF is that he had many complaints from contestants that a guy could shoot one gun several times each day and take his highest score for the day.
    I guess I kind of see the logic of this, but this rule penalizes the guy with just one glock. Not all ranges that hold GSSF indoor matches abide by the rules consistently which I see as a issue if you travel to different matches.
     
  8. South Fla

    South Fla ©South Fla 2018

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    Duh...
    I guess that I'm just grumpy at the way that it is done.

    I understand the process and why it is done, but if the top 2 shooters shoot a 17, 19, 34 each, that takes out the top 6 spots. When there is only one classification, it penalizes the one-gunners.

    So, consequently, I don't agree with what goes on, so I don't shoot there anymore. And like I said, I know others that agree with my stance and they don't either.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2010
  9. X-Spec

    X-Spec

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    I agree as I have seen indoor matches where one person has taken the top two or three spots with different pistols. Although the argument can be made that if this person is good enough to do so he deserves the placings.
    But in the interest of attracting new people and keeping people coming back I see this as counter productive.
    Also I find it interesting in the particular case I am speaking of, this individual is also the match director. This also seems to be counter productive to the cause of the GSSF.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2010
  10. 50X

    50X

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    I do not claim to be a person with any great shooting skills, but when I first started shooting competitively I learned that generally if a person wanted to get better that person got better by practice.

    If a person has a problem with someone winning, then the person that has the problem should practice and work harder to get better and then beat the person doing all the winning.

    I have lost many matches through the years and came to realize that I was beat by a better shooter, that shooter deserved to be the winner because he
    shot the match better than I did.

    What has competitive shooting come to if I do not win should I start complaining about the better shooter beating me in hopes of them handing me a prize that I do not deserve.

    If you expect to win you should work and practice to become better to win,
    do not complain about someone that has worked to sharpen their skills to win.
    Do not expect prizes to just be handed to you just because you show up and participate in the competitive match.
     
  11. South Fla

    South Fla ©South Fla 2018

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    Duh...

    I equate the situation to the American League East in MLB.

    The Yankees and the Red Sox dominate the division year after year after year.

    Sure every so often, other teams prevail, but not often.

    No matter how much they practice.
     
  12. 50X

    50X

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    I also should have stated that along with practice there should be a certain ability level possessed by the person hoping to improve their shooting skills to the level that this person wishes to achieve. If that ability is not there to become a top shooter they will still will benefit from the practice with improved skills, and confidence. So you can improve you skills or complain about the people that shoot better than you because they work harder to improve their skills.

    My point is our society seems to be heading in the direction of if I complain enough I will get my way, if we are not already there. When I believe that
    a person that really wishes to win at shooting should work hard to achieve that goal not complain and hope someone will hand them a prize. That is kind of what this country was built on in the first place wasn't it hard work.

    A person could also compare what has been said to other types of competition like golf, or Nascar. It would be like this the winner gets the trophy but we will be drawing for the $1,000,000.00 prize money and the winner is the person that finished in 61st place.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2010
  13. vmw

    vmw

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    As I remember it, this person wanted to prove to GSSF HQ that a reasonablly good shooter could win 1st, 2nd and 3rd place in 'A' class when HQ said that it wasn't really possible. That same match director spent many hours in verbal and written conversation with HQ concerning the current rules and their interpertation vs the 'old' way that the match had been run for years prior to the change.

    If you are questioning the match director shooting better scores than others, as 50X said, practice makes it easier to shoot 500's with a Hi X count. This match director shoots over 300 rounds a week in practice and matches. I'm sure that the match director or any of the individuals that produce the match that I think you are referring to, will welcome any and all that shoot a better score as well as a lesser score.

    As for being counter productive, these matches are run exactly as GSSF HQ wanted when they published the written rules for GSSF Indoor matches.
     
  14. X-Spec

    X-Spec

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    I am sure you and I are referring to the same match location.
    And yes this location and individuals are running the matches as per GSSF rules.
    What I am saying is I think that the current GSSF rules are counter productive to attracting and keeping NEW shooters. As per page 18 of the current GSSF information packet for indoor matches. Also the rules seem to stack the advantage to people who own more that one Glock pistol. So I have to wonder if GSSF is promoting these matches as a way to attract new shooters or a way to increase revenues to the ranges the hold these matches.
    I have two questions for you.

    1. Why is it that as a GSSF member I can't find the specific indoors rules listed on the GSSF website or even listed in The Glock Report? Show me where GSSF has compete indoor rules listed anywhere online.
    They don't make them public for some reason.





    2. Has this individual that we are speaking of ever win the Glock pistol drawing at the end of a GSSF match held at this location when he was acting a match director?

    And BTW I participated in a GSSF indoor match just today that doesn't follow the published GSSF indoor rules as per the way they are written.
    Is it unreasonable for a GSSF member participating in different GSSF indoor matches at different locations expect to see the rules applied consistently at GSSF indoor events?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2010
  15. vmw

    vmw

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    Best to contact GSSF HQ if you can't locate the indoor rules. I don't have a copy either but I remember seeing a memo from GSSF that covered the eligibility of the 'gun' used and using the first run with a 'gun' as the score for record.
    To my knowledge, NO. The names of the match production staff are not included in the Grand Prize Drawing at this location.
    Published? You made your own bed, so to speak.
    If the milk is sour, don't drink it if you don't like it's taste.

    SK
     
  16. glockess56

    glockess56 CLM

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    Target World does not go by the rules if they shoot it like last year. I wrote them an email saying I have three G-17s, each a different serial number. The reply was that I could shoot only one G-17 as you can only shoot one model, one time. Now, the way I understand the rules from VMW, who knows the rules and runs a fine match, says that a person can shoot one serial number one time. Which means if I have three G17s, each with a different number, I can shoot each one of them. At Target World, they go by model, not serial number. YOu can shoot one model, one time for the score to count. If this is changed, then let me know. That's why I emailed them. I didn't want to drive two hours to shoot one gun.
     
  17. X-Spec

    X-Spec

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    Here are the rules pertaining to which and how many different pistols that can be used at a GSSF indoor match as listed on page 18 in the GSSF Indoor Range Match Booklet.


    "1. Participants may shoot more than 1 pistol at each event. The course of fire may be shot more than once per pistol. For each pistol, however, ONLY the first course of fire will be placed in the rankings.

    4. At the end of the 3 matches in the series, the winner of the series is determined as follows:

    a. Each participant must shoot in 2 of the 3 matches to place in the final standings. If the shooter is using more than 1 model GLOCK, he must shoot each weapon at 2 or more matches to receive multiple placements. If a participant shoots 2 matches using different model GLOCKS, they place once in the final results. "


    So you see not every range follows these rules consistently which causes confusion for the shooter who is trying to prepare to participate in matches at different locations.
    For this reason I think it is imperative that GSSF make every effort to make sure the rules are being implemented consistently from range to range. So for those of you that only shoot GSSF indoor matches at one location then this may not seem important, but for those of us who try to shoot at different locations then this becomes important as we need to know what to expect when preparing to attend a given match.
    Also why isn't this information listed on the GSSF website or in the Glock Report?
    GSSF treats this information as if it is Top Secret for some reason as this information is only listed in the packet given to a range holding a indoor match.
    It would seem to me that GSSF would want individual GSSF members to have the correct rules to alleviate any possible confusion. But I guess this is just me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2010
  18. 50X

    50X

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    X - Spec, I am guessing that since your profile is marked Ohio you may be talking about the Gentleman that runs the matches at New Albany Ohio ( Aim
    High ).

    Let me get this right this man has a passion for these matches and runs them
    so people like you, myself, and everyone else that enjoys shooting has a place to shoot them here in central Ohio. But as I understand it he may not paid by his employer for running these matches, and he uses his own equipment to get the results out ( extremely quick I might add ). Without him there might possibly not be anymore matches there to enjoy.

    So with what you wrote he should just work the match and not be able to compete because runs the match, or could it be because he has worked at competitive shooting and practiced hard to achieve his high level of shooting ability, and wins. I have known Vern for several years now, haven't
    really talked to him in about 8 months but I know him and his shooting abilities well enough to know that he works hard at.

    My I ask if I am correct in my guess and the above is correct, if Vern had not shot in the matches you shot in there, how would him not shooting changed where you finished would you have won the matches.

    Just remember without people like Vern we would not have these matches to shoot in the first place. Also Vern's HONESTY is beyond reproach!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  19. glockess56

    glockess56 CLM

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    I want to add a thing or two to this thread. I think it has gone past what rules are in GSSF Indoor and what are not. I have to agree with 50X. Vern is one of the most honest people I know of and he runs one of the best indoor matches. He scores fairly and is honest in running the match. If a rule changes, he emails people who are in these matches and tells them, explaining a rule change. He gets the results out quickly and he now waits seven days for the final, just in case the standings change. Yes, he shoots in the match as do match directors I know in other non-Glock shooting sports. He's a great shooter. If he didn't shoot again, I wouldn't go any higher in the standings. Do you know how many people shoot 500 at that match? That match has a high quanity of skilled shooters. Vern has even tried different courses of fire offered by the GSSF for indoor matches. Each one is challenging, some easier than others, but Vern is willing to deal with change when it comes around. I enjoy these matches. Sometimes, I do good (over 480) and sometimes my best that match is way, way low. That's competition, that's sports and that's why practice is important. Competition is fun, nerve wracking at times, but fun. And, GSSF keeps competition fun, with their outdoor and indoor matches. There's something for everyone. No other gun maker offers all this fun except Glock. Let's keep it that way and have fun, meet new people, and do our best at the range. Who knows, some day I may hit 500, which is my goal and I intend to do that! So, instead of bashing the matches, let's help to make them succeed and accept their challenges.
     
  20. shadow_dog

    shadow_dog Hilljack

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    I have to chime in again on this thread. TargetWorld is this Saturday again. I'll be there. I am going to shoot 3-4 pistols this time. I hope this match doesn't create another "distraction/debate".

    As far as Vern and the guys at Aim High--all top notch people IMO. I can't always get up there to shoot because of work or family. However, when I do, I know it will always be a well ran and friendly match. SUPER FAST results too, I might add. Wish I lived closer, the 2 hr drive is impossible when I work.

    Additionally, I have been somewhat disturbed by this thread. Why bash anyone who would run an event? The loss of 2 indoor events recently, sucks IMO. So why hassle anyone who tries to promote the indoor venue?

    Also, I wouldn't care if the people who run the matches names were entered for the draw, every shooter competes equally. Fair is fair.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010