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grounded...no dough

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by pick, Jan 31, 2004.

  1. pick

    pick

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    Pulled out my logbook today, last time I logged any PIC was in July 98, hmmmm, what else happened in 98, oh yeah, I got married, and then shortly afterward had a couple of kids. Sure wish I could figure out a way to fly without breaking the bank...^8
     
  2. MarcDW

    MarcDW MDW Guns Millennium Member

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  3. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    Pick,
    I really hate some of the directions our country has gone.

    In 1960 another Policeman, a Fireman and I bought an Aeronca Chief for $1,100.

    We agreed to park it full of gas.
    He who should put a minor ding in the plane had to fix it.
    If the plane received major damage, that's the breaks, we just lose our $400- investment.

    NO insurance of any kind.
    NO written contracts of any kind.

    Just three guys, with little money, having a ball owning and flying their own plane.

    I don't even have to tell you what the country has become.
    You couldn't think of doing something like that today :(

    [​IMG]
     
  4. ateamer

    ateamer NRA4EVR

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    In the hallway - it's on cuz!
    What was your monthly salary when that Aeronca cost $1100? I read a recent article that showed that the cost of flying as compared to salaries really hasn't gone up much at all in the last 40 years.
     
  5. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    I was a city policeman making about $4,600 a year or about $380 a month. Even then that was low pay. So no way could I buy a plane alone.
    Even with three of us we could not have owned the plane if we had to have insurance, etc like you had better have today.

    To put it in prospective.
    You could buy a nice 2 place used plane for what a nice mid level used car cost.
    Aeronca, Cub, Luscomb = 3 year old Chevy

    I guess todays 2 place standard would be a C150.
    I don't keep up with it but I would bet a nice C150 costs more than a used Chevy;)
     
  6. pick

    pick

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    Well, say I could find a c150 for 15,000 and financed it for 15years, (is that possible?) What would be a ballpark figure for plane payment and insurance? (200 hr private, almost all the hours in a 150/152, no instrument rating)

    Wife would rather get an RV, maybe I could convert a C130 ;f
     
  7. Wulfenite

    Wulfenite The King

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    In Flying a couple months ago there was a cost analysis of 152's. IIRC they averaged about $25K. I'd guess that a 150 would be 5-10K cheeper.

    I suppose that's in the ball park of your 3 year old Chevy.

    Of course I'd suspect that your Aeronca was newer, probably required less maintenance, you could probably do more work yourself legally, you didnt have (or really need) avionics, parts were probably cheeper, tiedowns were cheeper (free?), fuel taxes, etc etc,
     
  8. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    Ya, no matter how you slice it, it's an expensive hobbie.:)


    I would like to have that old Aeronca back. As I recall, I sold it for $900;Q
     
  9. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    Like today, it still took a big chunk out of your paycheck to fly but you are right about the low maintenance, etc.

    No avionics, no electricial system at all.
    And still I could go into Friendship International Airport (Maryland) if I wanted to.
    All I had to do was phone them and the tower would bring me in with the light gun.

    A student (with radio and after being checked out) could go into an International Airport solo.
    There sure wasn't the air traffic we have today. ;f

    At about 20 hours, once a student was signed off for cross country he really didn't have to fly with an instructor again. With just a few restrictions he could do anything a Private Pilot could do.
    He just couldn't carry passengers.

    No taxes.
    Well actually, Maryland tried to charge a cent and a half a pound of the gross weight of your airplane, a year.
    They also tried to charge a tax on your pilot's license.
    I paid it a couple years until I found out that many pilot/owners didn't pay it.
    I called the "State Aviation Board", which was two men appointed by the Governor into gravy jobs.
    We had a "nice" talk. I told them I didn't think it was legal for the state to tax a federal license and I didn't see the state doing anything for me for my airplane tax.
    So, I wasn't paying it anymore.
    They said if I didn't pay it I'de get a big fine and go to jail.
    I told them something about their mothers and they knew where to find me.
    I never heard from them.:)

    Also back in the late 50's, early 60's, if you were in a little higher pay grade than me, you could still buy a nice "War Bird" for $2,000+.
    I started to buy a very nice AT6 Texan for $2,500.
    It came down to I couldn't afford the 30 GPH gas. (or replacement parts)
    A Mustang pilot/owner told me he could still get a brand new Mustang engine for $1,000.


    Sorry Pick
    I guess all this BS isn't helping your search for cheaper flying.
     
  10. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    Pick,
    I've been thinking about your problem.

    What kind of flying are you mainly interested in?
    Working towards a CFI or other flying job, just weekend pilot type flying or just wanting to get in the air fun flying?

    For the first two, a club/partnership type thing is a lot cheaper than owning and paying for everything yourself.
    Of course there are built in headaches in sharing but also advantages like flying a much better airplane than you could afford alone.

    The third type of flying, just wanting to get in the air and have fun has a number of possibilities.

    My flying now is of the fun type.
    I retired after flying since 1960, commercially since 1966 (helicopters).
    Although I enjoy instructing, I don't want to instruct part time and and tie up my weekends.
    I can afford to buy something like a C152 or 172 but I don't enjoy flying them enough to bother. Helicopters somewhat spoiled me and overall I got a little "burned out" with 23,000 hours.

    So I've been looking for something that's fun.
    I also wanted to see if I could find something I could fly from my place and base at my place. I don't want to drive to the airport to fly.
    I flew a two place Ultralite. It was a ball. Kind of like a J3 Cub.
    I would have bought one but I don't know of one that will safely operate out of here.

    A friend has a PPC (powered parachute). He said fly it. I did.
    On the climb out I thought, What a dumbass, how do I get this thing down.;Q
    One of the strangest things I've ever flown.
    I wound up buying one and fly it out of my back yard.

    ANYHOW, the point to my ramblings is the ultralite field is fun flying and can be a good bit cheaper than conventional airplanes. It can also be more expensive.
    There are "ultralites" that are fine machines.:cool:


    My back yard airport (it is actually a licensed heliport).
    The yellow lines are my "runways".;f
    [​IMG]

    This is a fly by at the airport before I got good enough to fly at the house.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. pick

    pick

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    Now that looks pretty cool, but I've never flown anything that didn't have a rigid metal wing (well not entirely true, I did get .2 in a bell 206 with the doors off ;f ) so I've often wondered about the ppc's I've seen fly over the house once in a while.

    As far as my flying goals--cheap and fun. I can't pass the Ishihara color test so until I pass a demonstrated ability test for a waiver...my private is restricted to day time flight only..and get this, it also says no flight by color signal control. So I guess if my radios go out, and I make a straight in approach to a large international airport causing chaos and confusion, I can whip out my private and show 'em (if I lived through it, but I'd never do it of course).

    So I'll never fly for Delta or United, but I would like to get Inst rated and try for the waiver. And I'd like to instruct one day, but getting the Isntr and a commercial ticket takes a lot of cash. So cheap and fun it is. I've looked into gliders..just about as expensive as renting a 150, and I've read a little about hang gliders, but I'd have a very long drive to the nearest training.

    Back to the ppc's, how safe are they, how long does a tank of gas last in it, do you have any directional control if the engine quits, how are they regulated by the FAA, and of course, how much do they cost?

    Well I've rambled on long enough, thanks for your input, It would be nice to be up again.

    Pick
     
  12. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    Pick,
    I just stuck my PPC pictures here to show you (if you didn't already know) about some alternate fun flying "toys".

    The PPC is considered an ultralite under Part 103.
    No license and no plysical (not even any mandatory lessons to fly UL)
    http://www.usua.org/Rules/ruleandregs.htm

    The PPC has all the limits of a parawing, which it is of course.
    It's slow, 30mph T.O., 30 cruise and 30 landing.
    A bigger engine gives you a faster climb but no more speed.
    Parachutes don't handle wind well so about 10 knots is more than you want to fly in usually.
    In otherwords it's pretty limited but it's just what I need to get my feet off the ground now and then.
    It's fun, but my reason for having a PPC instead of a fixed wing UL is the fixed wing needs more runway than I have.

    You might be better served flying a UL fixed wing.
    I enjoy flying anything and they are fun.
    Probably about half the speed, or less of the aircraft you are use to flying but the same controls (usually).

    They range from just about a powered hang glider to nice two place (expensive) airplanes.

    Check around and see if you can find some locally and talk to the owners.
     
  13. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    I forgot to answer all you question about the PPC.

    This one has a 65hp dual mag Rotax engine. Will outclimb a C150.
    About 2.5 hours flying with reserve. (Regular unleaded car gas)

    They say it will climb above 10,000ft (not with me it won't)
    They have a good safety record. If the engine quits you are already under a parachute.;f

    The two foot bars are the parawing steering and flaring for landing. The foot bars pull the back of the parachute down for a breaking/drag effect to turn.
    I land it like an airplane. It will grease on in about 150 feet if I do my part.

    The right stick is throttle.
    The left stick is front wheel steering.

    The black pedestal is the instrument panel.
    RPM, ROC, Total time, Flight time, Alt, Dual EGT, Water temp, Warning lights, etc.

    Radio and GPS

    No cabin heater, No cabin. ;f

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Wulfenite

    Wulfenite The King

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    What's your longest XC?
     
  15. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    Into a little wind,
    a couple thousand yards.;f

    I've gone about 12 miles out but mostly all I've been doing is wandering around taking pictures, shooting T.O's and Ldgs and enjoying some laid back seat of the pants flying.:)

    I was "wandering around the neighborbood" a couple months ago and noticed 52 knots GS on the GPS.
    The wind was forcast to pick up later in the day.
    Instead of heading for the house I continued downwind to look at a Gun Store a few miles North.
    About the time I turned South, at 400 feet, it started to get rough as hell and I was doing a couple knots on the GPS, backwards.
    I had to drop down and almost skim the trees to make 4 knots forward GS and the flight was really losing all it's fun.

    When I dropped over the 33 foot power lines on my North fence line the wind gave me a little break and I made an almost fair landing.
     
  16. Wulfenite

    Wulfenite The King

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    It occurred to me that that might be a cool way to commute and beat some traffic. At 30 mph it would still be more than a hour before the wind got ahold of you.

    I wonder if they make a speed canopy?
     
  17. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    The PPC is pretty restricted because of the weather/winds. There's a lot more days you can't fly than days you can.

    They do make different "wings" but like any wing it's a trade off between lift, speed, maneuverability, safety, etc.

    Mine is a good wing designed for a two place bird, so solo I can be airborn in 2 to 3 hundred feet.

    I should be able to take off to the North and clear the wires easily but I doubt I'll try anytime soon.:)