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OF course he was bluffing, he never pulled the trigger. This is why you do NOT pull a gun as a threat. If the gun comes out & the fight continues, you better be shooting or you lose the gun. This is also why you don't bring a gun to a fist fight.
 

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OF course he was bluffing, he never pulled the trigger. This is why you do NOT pull a gun as a threat. If the gun comes out & the fight continues, you better be shooting or you lose the gun. This is also why you don't bring a gun to a fist fight.
4 against 1 is not a fist fight. Way too much disparity of force. The intent of the 4 was apparently to do more harm than a black eye.
 

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4 against 1 is not a fist fight. Way too much disparity of force. The intent of the 4 was apparently to do more harm than a black eye.
Agree, but if you fear that happening, you shoot somebody, not pull the gun & offer it to be taken from you. That is my point about guns in fist fights. Think zimmerman or the recent Abrey shooting. If it is bad enough that the gun comes out, the attack doesnt stop, somebody needs to get shot or the result is very likely what you saw.
Fwiw, we have no odea what sparked that. Could very well have been prevado by the victim based on the fact the guy had a gun. Then oops, the bad guys dont care & that is the result. Dont take a gun to a potential fist fight, one or four people, unless your are fully prepared to take that life.
 

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Agree, but if you fear that happening, you shoot somebody, not pull the gun & offer it to be taken from you. That is my point about guns in fist fights. Think zimmerman or the recent Abrey shooting. If it is bad enough that the gun comes out, the attack doesnt stop, somebody needs to get shot or the result is very likely what you saw.
Fwiw, we have no odea what sparked that. Could very well have been prevado by the victim based on the fact the guy had a gun. Then oops, the bad guys dont care & that is the result. Dont take a gun to a potential fist fight, one or four people, unless your are fully prepared to take that life.
Unfortunately for me I guess, but I could easily see drawing a weapon to stop 4 people from attacking me. He was in a really bad situation. But I can also see where it would be very hard to start shooting at 4 unarmed people. I think most normal people would have a very hard time with that decision. It would be interesting to know the whole story.
 

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Unfortunately for me I guess, but I could easily see drawing a weapon to stop 4 people from attacking me. He was in a really bad situation. But I can also see where it would be very hard to start shooting at 4 unarmed people. I think most normal people would have a very hard time with that decision. It would be interesting to know the whole story.
I will be honest, that scenario is my SD nightmare. Why you dont bring guns to arguments or a potential fist fight. You are now protecting the gun for obvious reasons. I doubt those four would have ran at the first shot either. They were committed, obvious by the lack of respect for a drawn gun. The gun comes out & the guy reaches for it, it pretty much needs to go bang or its all going sideways.

I saw this sim thing happen a few decades ago. Argument between a big guy & little guy in the parking lot in front of a donut shop my wife managed. I was there hanging out & it all unfolded. The little guy goes to his car & pulls out a gun. The big guy pauses but then the little guy pulls the trigger & nothing. I dont know if it was loaded or just nothing in the chamber, but the big guy took it away & beat the poop out of the guy. I had already called the cops as soon as the gun came out & they were there on a could minutes, but the little guy took an ambo ride. No i was not getting involved other than being a good witness. Don't take a gun to a fist fight.
 

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Millenium #3936
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4 against 1 is not a fist fight. Way too much disparity of force. The intent of the 4 was apparently to do more harm than a black eye.
I think you may have missed the point
 
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Messy situation all around. Even if he doesn’t draw it, there’s a good chance they’ll find it anyone once the fight starts. Very few people in the world could fight off four men intent on doing them serious harm, which these guys were and even if he had started shooting as soon as the gun came out, he’s still likely in deep trouble.
 

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Messy situation all around. Even if he doesn’t draw it, there’s a good chance they’ll find it anyone once the fight starts. Very few people in the world could fight off four men intent on doing them serious harm, which these guys were and even if he had started shooting as soon as the gun came out, he’s still likely in deep trouble.
Which is why we dont take guns to fist fights. A single guy turns into 3-4 if he has friends there. I made this statement befire, I dont even honk my horn when carrying. Good chance you will be declared the aggressor if it goes south.
 
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Messy situation all around. Even if he doesn’t draw it, there’s a good chance they’ll find it anyone once the fight starts. Very few people in the world could fight off four men intent on doing them serious harm, which these guys were and even if he had started shooting as soon as the gun came out, he’s still likely in deep trouble.
Which is why we dont take guns to fist fights. A single guy turns into 3-4 if he has friends there. I made this statement before, I dont even honk my horn when carrying. Good chance you will be declared the aggressor if it goes south.
 

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Which is why we dont take guns to fist fights. A single guy turns into 3-4 if he has friends there. I made this statement before, I dont even honk my horn when carrying. Good chance you will be declared the aggressor if it goes south.
I guess I don’t understand your comment. Nobody should choose to get into any type of fight, it just happens sometimes. If you happen to be carrying a gun and someone or even multiples decide to jump you, I don’t see where you have a choice.
 

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Millenium #3936
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What point did I miss?
The one Fred clarified in his response to you. I neglected to see it the first time or I would not have even responded. Its all good
 

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I guess I don’t understand your comment. Nobody should choose to get into any type of fight, it just happens sometimes. If you happen to be carrying a gun and someone or even multiples decide to jump you, I don’t see where you have a choice.
I think Fred is simply misunderstood in this thread. I will let him clear it up ;)
 

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Wow...Don't pull it if you're not willing to use it, also a reminder to learn to shoot from retention.
I probably wouldnt use the word willing, but you must play these things out in your head. If this then that. Decades ago when I had my first ccw, I asked a LEO, buddy of mine, a few years older, what if. What If i drew my weapon & the guy didnt back down. He told me to shoot him to the ground. If a guy does not fear/respect a weapon pointed at them, they are crazy, fearless or both. You will lose that gun & the outcome will not be in your favor. Stuck with me all these years.
Your ccw is not a threat to many career criminal types. They have likely been in serious fights & injured, stabbed, shot, bones broken, where most of us have not. You pull your weapon & the guy says FU & keeps coming, you have a serious problem. Dont be that guy, dont get involved in something just because you have a gun. You may very well be forced to use it.
 
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I guess I don’t understand your comment. Nobody should choose to get into any type of fight, it just happens sometimes. If you happen to be carrying a gun and someone or even multiples decide to jump you, I don’t see where you have a choice.
We disagree here. Fights dont often "just happen". Most are instigated by one person or the other. You can often see it coming. The dirty look, social finger, horn honk, the FU. Deescalation should happen, especially if carrying a gun. So no, most fights dont "just happen". Often we choose by our action or some times lack of actions & a fight breaks out.
I am in my 60s, I certainly pay attention & try to avoid cnfrontation. You bet, some duchebags make that very difficult but if carrying a gun, it reauires a lot more self control imo, dont be that guy. If it does happen, truely something you can not avoid, you pull that gun & the attack continues, you will be forced to shoot & you better make sure your mind is made up before that moment. Oh yeah, booze & ccw do not go together. I avoid bars all together, but if you like to drink, dont ccw. Bad things happen when everyone is bold on booze. My permit will be tevoked if I even go into a bar carrying, even if the state i am in makes it legal. I take that seriously.
 

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We disagree here. Fights dont often "just happen". Most are instigated by one person or the other. You can often see it coming. The dirty look, social finger, horn honk, the FU. Deescalation should happen, especially if carrying a gun. So no, most fights dont "just happen". Often we choose by our action or some times lack of actions & a fight breaks out.
I am in my 60s, I certainly pay attention & try to avoid cnfrontation. You bet, some duchebags make that very difficult but if carrying a gun, it reauires a lot more self control imo, dont be that guy. If it does happen, truely something you can not avoid, you pull that gun & the attack continues, you will be forced to shoot & you better make sure your mind is made up before that moment. Oh yeah, booze & ccw do not go together. I avoid bars all together, but if you like to drink, dont ccw. Bad things happen when everyone is bold on booze. My permit will be tevoked if I even go into a bar carrying, even if the state i am in makes it legal. I take that seriously.
I get what you’re saying. By “just happen”, I meant you may have done nothing wrong, yet you are still targeted and assaulted with there being little to nothing you could have done to avoid it. A friend and I were once surrounded by a group while leaving a Mexican restaurant back in the early 90’s. It was a reasonable hour in a nice part of town, but they were out looking for trouble. The only thing we did wrong was that we had the wrong skin color. A couple of years after that I was walking by an apartment complex and a shirtless guy comes running out of one of the units in a rage screaming obscenities at me threatening to kill me. I had never seen the guy before in my life. I bolted, but someone less mobile would have been forced to engage. The victims of the knock-out game did nothing to cause the attacks perpetuated upon them. Unless you never leave your house, being the victim of random violence does happen. I absolutely agree with you though, there are a whole lot of situations people get into that could have easily been avoided.
 

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I get what you’re saying. By “just happen”, I meant you may have done nothing wrong, yet you are still targeted and assaulted with there being little to nothing you could have done to avoid it. A friend and I were once surrounded by a group while leaving a Mexican restaurant back in the early 90’s. It was a reasonable hour in a nice part of town, but they were out looking for trouble. The only thing we did wrong was that we had the wrong skin color. A couple of years after that I was walking by an apartment complex and a shirtless guy comes running out of one of the units in a rage screaming obscenities at me threatening to kill me. I had never seen the guy before in my life. I bolted, but someone less mobile would have been forced to engage. The victims of the knock-out game did nothing to cause the attacks perpetuated upon them. Unless you never leave your house, being the victim of random violence does happen. I absolutely agree with you though, there are a whole lot of situations people get into that could have easily been avoided.
Maybe we are into semantics. Yes, 100% violence can happen to anyone of us, one reason we carry guns. A fight though to me is something that often is instigated by one or both participants. Yeah sure, someone runs up & clocks me, fight is on whether he really wanted one or not.
 
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