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Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by alexanderg23, Sep 2, 2011.
Kind of odd..
At some point, arresting someone becomes an exercise in force. Not knowing what was said or done prior to the video rolling or the audio picking up, can't say "good tase or no".
There are places that put the taser lower on the use of force spectrum than empty hands, BTW.
Without audio it's hard to say.
Ohhh, if he has his hands up we can't tase..
One department in the Metro Detroit area supposedly had to completely re-do their force continuum because they allowed taser as an answer to verbal noncompliance.
OFC - "Sir, if you don't stand up and leave the premises, I'm going to arrest you for trespassing"
Sub - (Still seated) "**** you."
I would have to say that's how we handle it in my resturant. If someone comes in with the intent to cause a disturbance in hopes to get free food we ask them to leave. If they don't? "SPRAY!!!!"
Too many times have we called the Police, and while we wait the people Yell, threatton, and trash my lobby. Then leave right before the police show.
There is far to little information present in the video to make a judgement.
That is how it works at my agency. Pepper spray and ECD are at the same level. They are above soft hands but below strikes. They gave us the tasers and said if you need them use them we will buy all the cartridges you need.
Are you hiring? I come cheap!
We used to be the same; tasers (now we call them conducted energy weapon) and OC were considered on the same level for use of force.
Now they are considered a very high level of force. It`s to the point if you are justified in using a taser you are justified in using your firearm.
My old Sheriff told us if someone doesnt do what you say. Tase them till they do basically. First month or so we had the taser in the jail we used it 3 times. Many more followed then it quickly tapered off. Why did it taper off? Well the dirt bags finally adapted and learned we were not messing around. Things got real quiet
Fast forward to current agency and pepper spray is on the same level of force as the taser. I have no problems with that.
so the guy recording the video says that he hopes the dude gets tased. Then when he does he *****es about it. Yup typical
^^ That's exactly what our policy allows us to do. It's very, very nice. And no signs of our policy getting changed anytime soon. We are encouraged to use the taser so we DON'T have to get physically tangled up with someone and risk officers getting injured. We'd rather get automatic compliance after about 5 seconds.
Wouldn't that be nice?
Apparently it's pretty common outside of the departments I've dealt with!
Our policy requires that (1) the suspect must be "violent" or pose a "threat" to himself or others, and (2) EITHER (a) other attempts to subdue the subject have not been or likely will not be successful, or (b) we "reasonably believe" it will be unsafe for us to approach.
That's a pretty high bar. It's not a compliance situation. It's pretty much assaultive/combative. And I guarantee you will be videotaped!!
Looks like a good tase. Doesn't get any better than that. Probes stuck, subject went down.
No way to tell if it was justified from inside the restaurant where you can't hear the exchange between them.
It may be a little off topic, or considered insensitive by some, but society tends to tag "handicapped" people as incapable of causing harm and we aren't supposed to do anything but feel sorry for them. If the title of the video title was "Large Man gets tased by Individual Smaller Officer" there probably wouldn't even be much of a discussion of whether it was justified. Simply put, if someone can't follow instructions and appears to be resisting, then the threat is there.
On a less serious note if SOP was to ask 20 questions:
1. "ARE YOU HEARING IMPAIRED?" A: no
2. "OKAY, DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH?" A: yes
3. "OKAY, CAN YOU FOLLOW SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS?" A:yes
4. "THEN CAN YOU FOLLOW SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS THAT MAY APPEAR TO BE MORE COMPLICATED THAN THEY REALLY ARE DUE TO THE CURRENT SITUATION?" A: huh?
5. "Uh oh he's not getting this. "DON'T MOVE!!! ARE YOU ON DRUGS? A: no.
6. "HAVE YOU BEEN DRINKING?" A: no.
7. "ARE YOU UNDER ANY SORT OF STRESS THAT MAY BE MAKING YOU ACT IRRATIONALLY AT THE CURRENT TIME? A: well . . .
8. "HOLD IT RIGHT THERE!!! DO YOU HAVE A HISTORY OF ACTING IRRATIONAL? OR IS THIS JUST AN ISOLATED INCIDENT?" A: yes
9. "STAY RIGHT THERE!!! YES, THIS IS AN ISOLATED INCIDENT? OR YES, YOU DO HAVE A HISTORY OF ACTING IRRATIONAL?" A: well, no
10. "CRAP. SKIP THAT ONE. UM, ARE YOU HANDICAPPED IN ANY WAY?" A. I don't think so.
11. "HAVE YOU EVER BEEN LABELED AS MENTALLY CHALLENGED BY FRIENDS, FAMILY OR A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL AT ANY POINT IN TIME IN YOUR LIFE?" A. um
12. "DON'T MOVE!!! SINCE YOU CAN'T GIVE ME ANY SIGNIFICANT INFORMATION ON YOUR CURRENT CONDITION, IS THERE ANYONE YOU CAN CALL OR WHO MIGHT HAPPEN TO BE NEAR BY THAT KNOWS YOU PERSONALLY AND CAN GIVE US THAT INFORMATION?" A: what?
13. "I SAID!! IS THERE ANYONE YOU CAN CALL OR WHO MIGHT HAPPEN TO BE NEAR BY THAT KNOWS YOU PERSONALLY AND CAN GIVE US THAT INFORMATION?" A: My mom is right here. Mom: He's mentally challenged.
14. "OH. So he just doesn't percieve reality the same way "non-mentally challenged people" do and he is just confused during this current situation?" Mom: Yes
15. "Oh. In that case. Sir, Due to your lower mental capacity I now view your enormous stature as non threatening. Will you please leave? A:no
16. "Oh your still enraged about this situation you do not understand and you still want to kick my *** because you don't understand?" A:yes
17. "Well that's okay, you are mentally challenged so, do what ever you like. I'm going to turn my back on a much larger, enraged person and walk away. It is okay because you just don't understand what is going on. Have a good day." A: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARG!!!
The taser is low on the use of force scale. Tasing that guy is far less likely to injure him than any sort of take down on concrete. If he was non compliant it was the right tool.
On the note of the guy being handicapped; if his mental capacity is that of a small child maybe he needs the supervision a small child needs.
I love the genius who is recording this....In his infinite wisdom he immediately forms the opinion that the officer was wrong.
Nevermind the reasonable people who are trying to tell him "He didnt obey the police" and the gal at the end who asks him "were you out here when he asked him to do xyz". The best quote from this genius might be when the old lady tells him "he just accosted an old woman"..."I dont care! I got it on video".
What a moron....And we all know the problem here. The reasonable people who were witnesses will never come forward to make a statement, while moron with his video camera who wants to get some airtime on youtube will be more than happy to make his opinion known.