[Worn]

I tried to include a poll. Apparently, my poll had too many possible selections. (Why would the software let me do that?)
Single Action
Double Action
Single Action and Double Action
Neither Single Action nor Double Action?


Anyway, here is the post sans poll:

Do you think of the Glock design as a Single Action, a Double Action or what?

I've owned Glocks for a long time but it is only within the last year that I developed a good understanding of its trigger. That is, I always thought of it as a SAO, Single Action Only, like so many semi-autos, whether hammer or striker fired, with the fire control group being cocked by the recoil action of the slide.

More recently, I learned that a Glock is not fully cocked by cycling the slide and that it is pulling the trigger that finishes cocking the weapon. Some people have opined that Glock is a DAO pistol, since every shot involves (some) cocking via the trigger.

A 1992 Glock manual says: "... the Glock pistol has an action which combines the best characteristics of the traditional double and single action pistols, creating what has become known as the 'Safe Action' system.

"Glock pistols combine the safety and simplicity of revolver-like operation with a constant double action trigger pull, ... "

This language sort of burst my "single action" bubble. Maybe the "DAO" guy was right,

What is the Safe Action? I'm curious to know what others think. What do you think?

What does Glock think its Safe Action is? SA, DA, a hybrid in a class by itself?

I'm curious too; do other striker fired pistols operate similarly, partly cocking the weapon and leaving it to the trigger pull to complete the job?

 

[esizer]

Striker fire is a class of its own.

 

[allegro]

Striker fire is a class of its own.

End of discussion.

 

[Old Buzzard 74]

Striker fired is it's own animal.

 

[Jsferrazza]

I'm pretty sure the ATF considers Glocks to be DAO.

 

[Old Buzzard 74]

I'm pretty sure the ATF considers Glocks to be DAO.

They can't decide if a bump fire stock is a machine-gun, a trigger, an accessory, or what the definition of machine-gun is.

 

[Mister X]

I think the Glock is unique. Not really a true DAO perhaps as many think of the term, but perhaps technically one since the striker is partially tensioned until the trigger pull finishes the cocking action. I wouldn't call it SAO. There have been a couple of true DAO striker-fired pistols such as the P99 DAO and CZ100, but most others like the M&P, XD and Sig P320, I view as SAO.

 

[Worn]

Striker fire is a class of its own.

Not quite.

I have a Beretta Nano. It's striker fired but the trigger does all the cocking. It's a revue DAO weapon. It is not partly cocked by the slide's recoil at all.

I tend to think that Glock may be unique in that respect but I don't know if other striker-fired guns do that as well, which is why I asked.

I suspect that Glock's Safe Action may be in a class by itself, but not simply "striker fired."

I'm guessing no one knows of others that do that.

 

[LostinTexas]

DA. The trigger tension is a rest with minimal movement.

 

[bobandmikako]

I'm no expert but I agree the Glock Safe-Action and maybe some other striker-fired guns don't fit into a single DAO or SAO category. I consider the Glock to be closer to a single-action gun. The striker is pre-cocked to the point where the trigger only has to move a short distance to finish cocking and release the striker. When I think DAO, I think of a long trigger that is doing all of the cocking work. Also, the Glock needs the movement of the slide to recock the striker and reset trigger after firing.

 

[2stack]

I have a Kahr CM9 that I sometimes carry. The trigger pull is long and doesn’t have that place where it stops right before a crisp break. I call that a DA. I have a Glock 26 that is my primary carry weapon. Even though some call it a DA, you pull the “slack” out of the trigger and feel it kind of stop, then I steady up and aim and feel a crisp break. That is the unique or hybrid action. That’s the “safe action”. I like it.

 

[fastbolt]

Well, why not call it what Glock calls it, which is a "manageable constant double action only trigger pull"?

In older manuals they used to simply identify it "constant double action".

DAO has meant different things to different manufacturers and their engineers, and BATFE has their own definition.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I tried to include a poll. Apparently, my poll had too many possible selections. (Why would the software let me do that?)
Single Action
Double Action
Single Action and Double Action
Neither Single Action nor Double Action?


Anyway, here is the post sans poll:

Do you think of the Glock design as a Single Action, a Double Action or what?

I've owned Glocks for a long time but it is only within the last year that I developed a good understanding of its trigger. That is, I always thought of it as a SAO, Single Action Only, like so many semi-autos, whether hammer or striker fired, with the fire control group being cocked by the recoil action of the slide.

More recently, I learned that a Glock is not fully cocked by cycling the slide and that it is pulling the trigger that finishes cocking the weapon. Some people have opined that Glock is a DAO pistol, since every shot involves (some) cocking via the trigger.

A 1992 Glock manual says: "... the Glock pistol has an action which combines the best characteristics of the traditional double and single action pistols, creating what has become known as the 'Safe Action' system.

"Glock pistols combine the safety and simplicity of revolver-like operation with a constant double action trigger pull, ... "

This language sort of burst my "single action" bubble. Maybe the "DAO" guy was right,

What is the Safe Action? I'm curious to know what others think. What do you think?

What does Glock think its Safe Action is? SA, DA, a hybrid in a class by itself?

I'm curious too; do other striker fired pistols operate similarly, partly cocking the weapon and leaving it to the trigger pull to complete the job?

It is clearly closest to DAO as the trigger draws the firing pin back prior to release. The Glock firing pin, when at rest, is not in its fully down position, but partially back, held there by the lug of the firing pin resting against the rear leg of the cruciform.

Striker fired pistols fall into three categories: (1) firing pin fully down and trigger pulls it all the way back before release; (2) firing pin partially back and trigger pulls it the rest of the way back before release; and, (3) firing pin is fully back, and pulling the trigger merely releases the firing pin to fly forward.

S&W Sigma, SW9VE, SD9 are type 1.

GLOCK is type 2.

S&W M&P, Springfield XD Series, etc., are type 3.

 

[40frank]

Deleted my post. Couldn’t add to what was already said.

 

[Borg Warner]

Al I know is that it's not a crunch'n'ticker (DA/SA) and that's why I like it. Trigger pull is consistent from the first all-important shot to the last.

But don't go messing with trigger pull weight or you'll turn it into a cocked and unlocked single action. Instead, TRAIN with a lot of ammo and learn to MASTER the trigger Just as you would do with a DA revolver.

 

[vafish]

I'm pretty sure the ATF considers Glocks to be DAO.

That is correct. ATF considers it DAO because the action is only partially cocked when the slide cycles.

 

[NewportNewsMike]

Usually a DAO only gun has a higher trigger pull weight, say 10 pounds or so.
A SAO gun like a 1911 has a trigger pull weight of 4 to 6 pounds.
A double-action revolver that has been cocked has a trigger pull weight of 4 to 6 pounds.

Using this criteria, the Glock "Safe Action" is more in the SAO or cocked DA family.
That's why striker-fired guns need to have their trigger protected to be safely carried.

Would you walk around with a cocked SAA or S&W Model 66 in your pocket? That is exactly what your are doing if you carry a Glock in your pocket without a holster protecting the trigger.

 

[poodleplumber]

Personally, I regard it as a DA mechanism, because the trigger performs two actions of cocking and releasing. I recognize that it starts off partially cocked, and that is why it lighter than conventional DA mechanisms, but it still performs both functions of a DA mechanism. Creating a new category of "striker" could be useful, but striker-fired pistols have a good bit of variation in how much pre-cock is present, too. Mostly I think that understanding it is more important than shoe-horning it into a conventional classification.

Would you walk around with a cocked SAA or S&W Model 66 in your pocket? That is exactly what your are doing if you carry a Glock in your pocket without a holster protecting the trigger.

I agree with your conclusion that it needs a holster, but the length of pull makes the comparison to a cocked revolver (or unlocked 1911) less than fully accurate.

 

[durandrg]

End of discussion.

Not true! A striker fired gun can be double or single action. For lack of a better example the Taurus G2C is a double action where when cocked the striker is merely released by depressing the trigger. Whereas when the striker spring is not under tension, depressing the trigger puts the striker under tension and then releases it at the end of the triggers travel. A single action striker is under tension whenever the gun is cocked, the trigger only releases the striker and cannot reengage the striker. A Glock is a SINGLE ACTTION striker fired pistol. When the trigger is depressed the first thing that happens is the firing pin safety is pushed up to allow the firing pin to contact the primmer then at the end of the triggers travel the sear releases the striker. The sear does push the striker back a slight amount before releasing it. (Witch I guess is where they get the completion of cocking idea)

 

[sciolist]

Safe Action means the slide has to cycle to reset the trigger, the gun is partially cocked at reset, energy from the trigger pull completes the cocking process, trigger pull is the same every time and typically there's no external safety.

So operation is simplified to the greatest extent practical and the external safety is energy required to actuate the trigger, not a mechanical safety.