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Glock VS 1911 1000 round Match

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Littlemac, Aug 22, 2006.

  1. Littlemac

    Littlemac CLM

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    Third Annual Oklahoma Glock versus 1911 1000 Round Match

    Date: 10/21/06

    Time: Hammer down at 8:00 am

    Location: Walking Eagle Range (Between Okc and Tulsa) - Private

    Premise: To Determine which Platform fails first and most. 1911 or Glocks. To determine which gun is more reliable.

    Rules: You can play and shoot till you come to the line and your gun goes click. Then your day is over, at least for the contest. You can shoot at the other ranges as long as you want to but you are out of the competition.

    Come to the line ready to shoot up to 50 targets at one stage. I don’t believe that any one has shot a stage clean yet. so you might want a few more magazines.

    Contestant open to all shooter who have previously shot this competition and those individuals these shooters will vouch for. So either check your mail box for your invitation or get a previous participant to vouch for you. Have them IM me with Details.

    Bill S of Dallas is in charge of prizes again this year.

    Maybe some of the participant will chime in. Everyone has a good time. Almost everyone who has participated has come back time and again.

    Naysayers go away. Obviously you don’t want to play along. I have heard it all before. This contest is slanted toward glocks. Glocks have a bigger gas tank. No one carries 1000 rounds to a gun fight. It doesn’t prove anything but that one this day this gun beat this gun. Or how about this. I know that my such and such gun could do it. Or My friend has a gun that can do it. Or so and so has put 170,000 through his gun with no problems you can see it at www. I don’t care.com. Time has never been a factor. Neither has the number or size of magazines.

    There will always be people who find something wrong with this contest. But everyone who attends enjoys the camaraderie and ribbing about which gun can go the distance.
     
  2. Clyde

    Clyde Lost in KY Millennium Member

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    Sounds Like a good time to me :)

    Slack Out :supergrin:
     

  3. EricBudd

    EricBudd

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    Why limit it to one of the two 'cult' guns? I'd put money that my CZ goes 1000 rounds in a day without a problem. Hell, the only time I've had a failue is do to poor quality control at my reloading factory (in the basement).

    I'd even go so far as to say that the majority of modern pistols with factory ammo that haven't been gunsmithed should do 1000 rounds in a day without cleaning. Now, once you tighten the slide, screw arouhd with the recoil system, mess with the trigger to ge a 1 lb pull (Glock or 1911) and add the latest gizzmo for a preceived advantage all bets are off.

    Eric
     
  4. USPSA Guy

    USPSA Guy

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    1000 rounds shouldn't be a factor for anyone who has a clue about their gun of choice. I do it nearly every week, and so does my wife with either Paras, 2011s, 1911s, or our G35.

    In 10 years of this I've had 1 barrel bushing break, and that was my fault for leaving a factory MIM part on the gun. The new Glock only has around 8000 rounds through it, but so far, so good.

    1000 rounds will test the shooter's ability to supply good ammo, mags, and not do stupid modifications to the gun. I differ with EricBudd on this, as I'd take any of my competition or carry guns in the safe, and all are at least lightly modified.

    What kinds of stages do they have? Stand and shoot stages designed to do nothing more than burn ammo (maybe a necessary thing), or stages with movement and a bit of challenge? Do any really good shooters attend, or just folks who buy into the premise?

    My only nitpick would be this "test" is comparing guns from a single manufacturer to a platform that could vary from Philipino import Charles Dalys to high end custom guns. Again, I see this as a "who is a smart shooter" test, so not bringing a cheesy gun is part of the test. It should be a fun time.
     
  5. mike4045

    mike4045

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    I am interested in the match. I have never been able to make a match like this before. I am more interested in putting my Taurus 24/7 production gun against the others. I know Glocks can take it. I also know a well maintained 1911 can too. I would like to see if the Taurus can. I have about 3,000 rds thru the gun and so far it is running. I bought the gun on a whim and it has replacd my Glocks for carry and competition. Nothing against Glocks but it points more like my 1911.



    Mike Mansilla:beer:
     
  6. Littlemac

    Littlemac CLM

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    It is pretty much a stand and shoot contest. I am not opposed to shooting on the move, but with a bunch of shooters to watch on three different ranges, the range officers and the time keepers have their hands full. The stages are widely varied at there are poppers, silhouttes, whirly giggs, a plate rack etc. There are large targets and small targets (3") I don't believe that anyone has shot a clean stage yet.

    You are correct one facet of this meet is burn up ammo.

    You are also correct don't do stupied things! Like come with magazines or springs untested. Or use ammo of dubious quality. Or go to the shooters box with nothing in the gun.

    Rules are you pull the trigger and it goes click you are out. Glocks and 1911's (springfields & STI) have won in the past.

    I for one thought for years that glock would take this contest hands down. Glock 9mm have done very well and at least one glock 21 (.45) has made it to the end of contest. But the truth be known a fine tuned 1911 does just awesome and with proper sights is a nail driver.

    Thank you for your qestions. Please note this match is scheduled in October in Oklahoma. If you are traveling from out of state, it is a long drive for what might be a short competition. Currently we have a commitment from a competitor from California and calls from Florida look for the best place to fly into.

    If you can't make it that doesn't mean that you can't put something like this on in your own area. that would be a hoot. A regional match. LM
     
  7. Cargun12

    Cargun12

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    How'd the match go? Everyone have a good time? I wasn't able to make it... was kind of "on call" for work so I went to the Tulsa gunshow with my dad.

    Not as much fun... but I still got to hear guns go off :upeyes:
     
  8. Littlemac

    Littlemac CLM

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    We had a total of 9 shooters participate in this years match.

    The attached spreadsheet lists the shooter and what stage he either finished or when his gun had a problem

    This years winner was a Glock 17. Runner up was a Glock 17C and the third place was a Glock 17L.

    Most of the problems were failure to feed.

    We only had to use about 1/2 of the stages as they were tough this year.

    Everyone had a good time and when a person was eliminated they went to shoot at the pnuematic range.
     
  9. Littlemac

    Littlemac CLM

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    Name Doug S Glock 17 9mm
    Stage # of Shots Time
    1 110 266.82
    2 112 198.44
    3 86 134.62
    4 70 94.06
    5 105 292.00
    6 120 256.58
    7 76 141.53
    8 89 170.94
    9 82 187.69
    10 65 127.64
    11 59 131.13
    12 63 142.65

    Summary 1037 2144.10
    35.74 Minute

    Name Sam L Glock 17-L 9mm
    Stage
    1 111 320.13
    2 70 153.32
    3 69 142.88
    4 68 157.66
    5 114 251.63
    6 84 154.10
    7 18 25.97 Failure to Feed
    8
    9 110 258.01
    10 73 134.72
    11 60 98.96
    12 62 93.23
    13 66 121.48

    Summary 905 1912.09
    31.87


    Name Cindy S Glock 17-C 9mm
    Stage
    1 110 379.12
    2 104 195.00
    3 85 172.09
    4 87 152.71
    5 165 633.34
    6 145 427.63
    7 96 254.11
    8 70 163.63
    9 24 78.21 failure

    Summary 886 2455.84
    1.30

    Name Jerry M Glock 21 .45 ACP
    Stage
    1 76 126.63
    2 67 83.82
    3 67 103.53
    4 59 72.18
    5
    6
    7
    8
    9 58 95.44
    10 47 70.52
    11 23 30.39 Failure to Feed

    Summary 397 582.51
    9.71

    Name Tim B Colt 1991-a1 .45 ACP
    Stage
    1 71 203.14
    2 114 298.45
    3
    4
    5
    6 68 153.14
    7 68 152.66
    8 21 46.92 Failure to Feed

    Summary 342 854.31
    14.24

    Name Brian S Wilson CQB .45 ACP
    Stage
    1 106 239.59
    2
    3
    4
    5 103 230.75
    6 33 63.81 Failure to Feed

    Summary 242 534.15
    8.90

    Name Bill B Kimber Hertiage .45 ACP
    Stage 1911.00
    1 106 315.05
    2
    3
    4
    5 120 438.84 failure to lock back

    Summary 226 753.89
    12.56

    Name Don V Colt MVI 1911 .45 ACP
    Stage
    1 112 460.53 Double Feed


    Name Bill S STI 2001 .45 ACP
    Stage
    1 55 97.41 Failure to Feed
     
  10. Steve Koski

    Steve Koski Got Insurance? Millennium Member

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    Thanks for posting the results!
     
  11. auto45

    auto45

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    So, if I read that right, only one shooter and gun made it through the 1,000 rounds?
     
  12. Littlemac

    Littlemac CLM

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    You Sir are correct.

    Only one person was able to go 1000 rounds with no problem.

    Everyone else had some problem in which their gun did not function properly.

    LM
     
  13. Blah!

    Blah! Guest

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    the G17 is always on top!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
     
  14. Cargun12

    Cargun12

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    I'll be there next time to try and change that! ;)
     
  15. TimB92020

    TimB92020 CLM

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    See you there my friend! I'm already looking forward to the next shoot :)

    -Tim
     
  16. Littlemac

    Littlemac CLM

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    Did I mention that the last four shooters in the contest all had Glocks?

    I would love to report that my Glock has made it through the contest, but alas it did not. As much as I love my Glock (I carry it almost everyday) I will shoot next years contest with a 1911.

    I have purchased one that the previous owner assures me will go 1000 rounds with no problems or it would not have been his carry gun. He has run 1000 rounds through it with no problems

    For those of you making notes next years match is to be held on October the 20th 2007. A Saturday.

    I promise to keep the stages to 50 targets and the distances less than 20 yards.

    If you wish to attend send me an email. If we can get someone to vouch for you, or you can prove your good character, you will receieve an invitation.

    I have invited lots of folks over the last few years who swore they would be here but did not show. If you want to play get in touch with me. Yes it is expensive and takes some time to attend this match with only bragging rights but very few folks don't want to come back to shoot.

    Oh and Bill S is in charge of prizes again next year.

    Kudos to Doug S. His wife wont two years ago.

    Maybe he will get online and tell you about his care and feeding of his glock. Maybe not, I don't see him at this forum often.

    LM
     
  17. Littlemac

    Littlemac CLM

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  18. rhino465

    rhino465

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    Man, the 1911 guys didn't even put on a good showing. Given their early malfunctions, I'm surprised they all choked so soon. I wonder if those same guys shoot in other competitions with the same guns, because they'd be having trouble there too.

    I'm also curious why failure to lock back was considered a malfunction that put you out of the contest. Some guns are actually modified so they won't lock back. Was it because the shooter expected that gun to lock open when it was empty?

    We may have to try this in Indiana some day if I ever win a lottery and can afford to burn through 1000 rounds of .45ACP just to prove my guns will do it. I've documented that they've gone well over 1000 rounds without any problems (and no cleaning), but it's not the same thing as standing there on one day and proving it to everyone. Even all but one of the Glocks in the match above had a problem along the way, but I'll bet on another day any of them could have gone the 1000, as could many 1911s.
     
  19. Littlemac

    Littlemac CLM

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    Certainly the gun is not designed to lock back with bullets in it. One of the rules of the contest is that if you pull the trigger and it goes click for whatever reason you are out. The RO called this lock back a malfunction and I stood behind his decision. If the shooter had just thrown down the mag with bullets in it, I would have let it slide. How ever that is not the case. The gun should have take the next round into battery. It did not. The ruling was a malfunction and I am good with it.

    I do think there are many guns out there that can go 1k per day with not a problem. I have a few glock 21s that have done it at classes, but it was never really documented or tracked. 1200 to 1500 in a day's class with Tom Givens.

    This type of contest brings it all together for on one day. You can either prove it or not. As much as I like these meets, and I have been to five of them, my pistols have not made it through the last three and I love my Glock.

    However next year I am going to use a 1911.

    I have an acquaintance who made the following statement, that is starting to prove true. 9mm is best shot from a Glock, 45 acp is best shot from a 1911. I have seen problems with both platforms, but the results of the last 5 years bears this out.
     
  20. D Smith

    D Smith

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    Littlemac told me that some of you had asked, so here's my way of keeping my Glocks running (these include my wifes', both daughters and my soon to be son-in-law, which equates to experience with 9mm, .40 and .45 GAP Glocks). You may do things somewhat differently, but this is what I've found to work for me.

    Gun Modifications:

    I replace the standard plastic recoil spring guide with a Wolff steel non-captured guide. Other brands may be just as good, but I've used other Wolff products and I trust their quality and experience. I've broken 3 plastic guides myself (head portion) and have seen several other fail. Never seen a steel one break. Factory spec (lb.rating) recoil spring. I usually replace recoil, striker and extractor springs about every other year. (that figures to about 8000 - 10,000 rounds in the most used guns. Springs are cheap and I try to replace them long before they would be needed). The only other "modifications" are Trigger Springs and connectors to individual preferences (Glock parts)
    Mine has a "New York #1" trigger. All the others have either a "New York #1" or a New York spring with a 3.5 connector (about the same as "factory" pull with a more positive trigger return. Competition shooters know exactly what I'm talking about here). Other than that, no modifications to the gun at all.

    Care and Cleaning:

    GO EASY ON THE LUBE! Glocks run very well with very little lube. If ANYTHING looks "wet" you've got WAY to much lube. I use "Tetra" oil and put it on with a syringe and needle. A "film" is all that's needed. Too much lube doesn't do anything but attract crud. I would guess that about 75% of all malfunctions (at least the ones I've seen)are caused by too much lube that "gummed" up the works with retained residue and crud. The .45 GAP is a perfect example. This gun is carried while hunting hogs with dogs. As it lives right along the Red River, I've lost track of the trips it's made into Oklahoma following dogs (as in swimming the river). This area is also notorious for fine red dirt/sand that gets into everything, this gun gets NO lube. If it gets wet or dusty, it gets blown off/out with some canned air and wiped off with a dry rag. To date it's gone about 2 years with NO failures. Granted it isn't shot a lot (probably on the order of 1500 rounds a year), but it does show what the gun is capable of.
    I usually use some of the "polymer safe" spray degreaser and an old toothbrush about once a year to scrub out the action. Oil as described above and then back into service.
    As a side note, some of you will be interested to know that I did not clean my 17 before the match. It was cleaned about 6 months ago and has had 3-4 tactical style matchs and a couple of plinking sessions since. I do plan to clean it soon as I noticed that it has some pretty severe jacket material fouling building up about 1/2 way down the barrel. I suspect a little "Sweet's 7.62" will cure that.
    Hope this helps your reliability some..........

    Doug