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glock steel

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by precision, Oct 6, 2004.

  1. precision

    precision

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    Called Glock a minute ago to see if they would tell me what type of steel the slide is composed of, they won,t. They did tell me that it is thru hardened to Rc 58 and carbnitrided to a depth of .006-.018". I was told this thin carbnit/tennifer is just a couple of points below a diamond. The final finish is a polyphosphate,which I have been told comes off in a blueing tank.
     
  2. otr-ace

    otr-ace

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    if you dont mind me asking why do you want to know?
     

  3. WalterGA

    WalterGA Millennium Member

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    Other than the depth of the Tenifer, your information is correct. Tenifer hardness is a few microns, which is a lot shallower than the figures that somebody at Glock gave you.
     
  4. precision

    precision

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    So why the incredible discrepency,one ten thousanth of an inch[.0001] is a far cry from 6-18 thousanths[.006-.018]. You may well be correct, the slide is plenty hard enough on its own at 58 Rc.Just repeating what the glock tech. people told me. interesting though.
     
  5. WalterGA

    WalterGA Millennium Member

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    If you're talking with a Glock techie in Smyrna, you're not talking with any of Glock's rocket scientists. :)
     
  6. precision

    precision

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    Hey Walter, So who do I get the specs. from? This mystery metal/heatreatment crap might fly with a paintball gun,not something I carry. You can find out what any U.S.A. gun is made of,and there proud of it.When I do work I have to supply certs, for metallurgical content,heatreat process,and final inspection. You are apparently intelligent and know someone smarter then the techs. So share it with us. When I said you were intelligent,I was sincere.
    Precisio
    P.S.: Does GA mean next to Alabama?
     
  7. Flexmoney

    Flexmoney

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    I agree with Walter. I don't think you were getting the right info from the guys on the phone.

    I don't know for sure (so take this for what it costs), but I was thinking that the metal was actual kinda soft...after you got thru the tenifer treatment. I am having a hard time believing it test at Rc 58 without the tenifer treatment.

    If you are worried about the Glock holding up for use/abuse...don't. The Glock will still be running when other guns have parts flying off.
     
  8. elsolo

    elsolo

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  9. precision

    precision

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    S7,nitrided,would be a very badass slide! I am making a set of crimp dies for a client with the same process. My heatreat people [Midsouth Metallurgcal],say the S7 needs to be drawn back to 50 in prep for nitride[ammonia]. Which will be about .005 in depth.
    Oh yeah, why do I care, why don't you. I think most of this KB **** is about metal. If it Rc's at 58 internally its to hard, if its soft internally then I hope the depth of the nitriding that they told me is correct. I'll usually quit getting curious when I know for sure. Thanks
     
  10. otr-ace

    otr-ace

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    Oh yeah, why do I care, why don't you. I think most of this KB **** is about metal. If it Rc's at 58 internally its to hard, if its soft internally then I hope the depth of the nitriding that they told me is correct. I'll usually quit getting curious when I know for sure. Thanks [/B][/QUOTE]

    I was just asking and no I dont care after 60000 + rounds down the pipe with no finish left on the slide and no rust or dents at that point it really dont matter.
    Sorry for asking.
     
  11. searcher

    searcher

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    HRc 58 is generally too hard and brittle for a highly stressed machine part subjected to repeated shock loading (fatigue stresses), even if it is made of something like AerMet 100, an aerospace alloy. This is a hardness used for cutting tools or knives. Ordnance steel is usually 4140 chrome moly (molybdenum) alloy in the U.S.A usually hardened to something like 47 HRc. This makes a strong part that is still fairly tough (not brittle). I would hope Glock uses something at least equivalent to that.

    I believe Tenifer is a surface treatment using either gas or salt-bath nitrocarburizing forming a case with a very hard layer less than .001 deep and a secondary layer about .006 deep. Here is a reference link. http://www.burlingtoneng.net/melonite/default.asp

    If you wanted to see for sure you could grind off the case in a spot on a slide and have your heat treater check the hardness. Sorry, I'm not grinding on my G19 slide!
     
  12. WalterGA

    WalterGA Millennium Member

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    Nah, it's "GA", as in next to "Alabamer", and south of "Tennersea".


    I found out everything I ever wanted to know (which wasn't much) about Tenifer by doing a Google search. The information that you're seeking is not information that's relevant to anything that I ever think about. Suppose the nitriding is .0002" thick, as opposed to .002" thick?? SO WHAT???!!!! What difference does that figure make, and what would you intend to do about it?


    The KB "problem" is pretty much "intelligently" covered by my sticky on that subject in "General Glocking".

    Oh, wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong about something, but a few microns thick makes a lot more sense to me than to think that the nitriding would penetrate a few thousandths.
     
  13. Mail Clerk

    Mail Clerk

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    It was my thought that the slides were made from "Tool Steel" instead of the typical carbon steel common used. If so it supports my theory about it's improved resistance to rust.

    Mail Clerk
     
  14. searcher

    searcher

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    Any kind of nitrided case (like tenifer) usually provides better corrosion resistance than stainless steel. Another advantage is that it is done at a lower temperature than other case hardening treatments and so there is less distortion to the part. Combine that with a good alloy steel (way cheaper than tool steel) with a good heat treat that is achieved by drawing (tempering) at a temperature above the nitrocarburizing temperature (so the final nitrocarburizing step won't reduce the hardness of the rest of the part), as in 4140 hardened and tempered to 47 HRc, and you get a strong, tough part with a fairly hard substrate that resists deep scratches (a thin hard case over soft steel won't) and a rock hard (about 70 HRc), corrosion and wear resistant surface. Perfect for a gun. Must be done right or cracks originate in the hard surface. I'm sure Glock knows how to do it right but you can always get a bad batch and as my first boss always said, "A heat treater screw up can kill you." He meant it figuratively, but in the case of firearms I guess it could be literally true.
     
  15. precision

    precision

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    EXCELLENT post searcher dude, which pretty much kills the glock techs claim of 58rc internally. Chatted with another machinist somewhere on here after he posted that he had milled & tapped his slide for a rear sight"cut like butter". Nothing at 58 cuts like butter. I do not buy the [few micron] stuff.