Glock indoor format

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by professor309, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. professor309

    professor309

    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    385
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    For those of you that shoot Glock indoor matches:

    Is your match being shot individually timed? Or are 8-12 people shooting on the line at the same time?
     
  2. SARDG

    SARDG Florida's Left Coast

    Messages:
    8,075
    Likes Received:
    539
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Florida's Left Coast
    One range where I RO the match has 2 lanes running at once, with separate ROs/timers.

    The other range that only had one poorly attended series was shooting one lane/one RO/one timer.

    Technically, there would be no sure way to have multiple shooters run on one timer because you have to keep track of the last shot at 15.30 seconds for each shooter.
     
    hrt4me likes this.

  3. professor309

    professor309

    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    385
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    That is my biggest issue with the multiple people firing at the same time. As a competitor, I constantly hearing shots being fired after the final stop signal.

    Competitors not in the correct start position and I know of an instance where a shooter made up an extra shot he was unable to get in on a previous string.

    I’m not a fan of it from a safety standpoint. A RO cannot adequately “control” or supervise more than one shooter at a time. This is less of an issue with more experienced shooters and I know it is common in training and qualifications. So “adequately” may not be the correct adverb here.
     
    SARDG likes this.
  4. Jayman28

    Jayman28

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    744
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    I run an Indoor league in the Atlanta area.
    We average 5-6 shooters at a time.
    Each string of fire is explained with the time limit before given the command to load and make ready.
    All shooters start on the timer and par time is set on the timer for the given COF. We rarely have shooters run over the given par time and those who do are usually the new shooters. We have had all 10 bays full and shooting simultaneously with no issues.
     
    Greg Snyder, Bradley T and jab like this.
  5. SARDG

    SARDG Florida's Left Coast

    Messages:
    8,075
    Likes Received:
    539
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Florida's Left Coast
    professor- agree with all. When I first began to RO at the GOOD range, shooting a well-attended match with separate ROs/timers, I called more finger violations in a 3 hour match than I have ever called anywhere in any match anywhere/anytime (including GSSF weekend matches) in my entire lifetime - no exaggeration! Leads me to believe the ROs before me were not calling them at all. In Homestead. all weekend, I called 3 finger violations - and 2 were on a new shooter friend of mine that I brought.

    At the other poorly run and poorly attended series, the employee in charge of the match said that shooters don't have to worry about the 15 seconds and he wouldn't otherwise listen. So I shot that match taking about 1 minute for each string. Then I went home and called Stephanie at GSSF, who called the range and straightened them out. Range had to let EVERYONE reshoot.

    My suggestion, depending on how squeaky you want to be... call or email GSSF/Stephanie.
     
    hrt4me and Jayman28 like this.
  6. Jayman28

    Jayman28

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    744
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Yes these issues do come up and I can’t say it doesn’t happen.
    But if a shooter doesn’t fully understand the start position I do stop and explain it but also have to understand is this person a new shooter? New to this kind of competition? GSSF is supposed to be for all shooters in the spectrum being new bought a Glock yesterday and experienced long time shooters.
    Yes some folks do go longer than the allotted time and again I will go give a warning and advise they need to pick up the pace. And again most times it’s new shooters. Indoor league is supposed to be fun. Your not competing for big cash or pistols.
    Should a new shooter be penalized because he or she had a limp wrist stove pipe? Or a malfunction?
    I personally don’t see a real problem with letting a shooter finish a shot if they had a problem.
    I can’t speak for other RSO’s but I’m quite capable and responsible to run multiple shooters and do so every Sunday in our league. Main focus is on the safety of my shooters and for them to have fun doing what they like to do.
    We’ve been indoor range of the year Twice and always have a good turnout every week with a variety of experienced shooters.
     
    JC502, mtstream and jab like this.
  7. SARDG

    SARDG Florida's Left Coast

    Messages:
    8,075
    Likes Received:
    539
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Florida's Left Coast
    I frequently run over PAR. I pace myself very well and frequently find myself taking the 10th shot at the buzzer. If you shoot at/with the buzzer, it is always 15.30 or under.
     
    professor309 and Jayman28 like this.
  8. professor309

    professor309

    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    385
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019

    I’m curious how you handle it if one of the shooters goes over?
     
    SARDG likes this.
  9. SARDG

    SARDG Florida's Left Coast

    Messages:
    8,075
    Likes Received:
    539
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Florida's Left Coast
    GSSF is for beginners (and others), but I consider it a disservice to the competitive shooting sports and the shooter to let infractions go. I'm happy to give justifiable reshoots.

    Most new shooters I see finish 10 rounds in under 7 seconds.
     
  10. Dave Shooter

    Dave Shooter

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    47
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Turning targets solve some of these problems. For some reason they don't seem to be as common as they used to.
     
    hrt4me likes this.
  11. Jayman28

    Jayman28

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    744
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    I handle it on the shooter
    Is it one of our newer shooters or experienced shooters. Also did that shooter have an issue during that string. Newbies will get a polite conversation and warning hey you need to pickup the pace.
    experienced get 1 warning then if it happens again they get appropriate penalty. Did the shooter go over by .5 seconds or 1 or did they blatantly go several over. Honestly it is case by case situation. Is it a high A class shooter or is it a low C class struggling.
     
    jab likes this.
  12. Jayman28

    Jayman28

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    744
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Agree and disagree
    No safety infractions get a pass. I’m fortunate that my bays are 3 inch ballistic Lexan dividers, which allows me to see all the shooters.
    I don’t agree that it’s a disservice to the shooting sports. GSSF indoor series is not the top tier competitive shooting sport. Outdoor series yes in my opinion.
    All I’m saying it’s a case by case situation.
    Not all leagues are run the same not all ranges are setup the same.
    I like to think my range and league goes above and beyond for our shooters and as a representative of GSSF.
     
  13. Jayman28

    Jayman28

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    744
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    I also Agree with SARDG if you have issues with a particular league call Stephanie. She is on top of everything and does an Incredible job handling ALL the indoor leagues.
    Also Professor and SARDG take this as a personal invitation to come shoot a match with us @ AmChar give me a heads up and I will cover you on an entry fee. I would love to have you there.
     
    SARDG likes this.
  14. professor309

    professor309

    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    385
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    And with a single shooter at an indoor match this is a good place to correct finger violations, muzzle direction, correctly casing the firearm, etc, and train the new shooter.

    You really want them to get involved in other genre of the shooting sports also. Some of the indoor matches may be doing them a disservice by not calling these issues to their attention.


    I've seen non permitted CoFs. CoF being changed within a series and a few other things. Luckily, I think we have gotten some of that corrected. In many cases, I think the match organizers have good intentions, they just really don't have the experience.
     
    Jayman28 likes this.
  15. coyote 30

    coyote 30 COYOTE HUNTER!!

    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    24
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    Location:
    WA. USA
    At the indoor matches I shoot we have turning targets so everyone shoots at the same time. The targets turn after the standby command then turn at the end of 15 seconds.
     
    IAhunter, hrt4me and Jayman28 like this.
  16. Jayman28

    Jayman28

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    744
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Yes agree with you.
    But unlike outdoor matches where it’s one on one with multi day time limits indoors does not have that luxury.
    Keep in mind most of these indoor leagues are a business. I have 4 hours time allotted 3 Sunday’s a month. We are independent from the range/store all volunteer.
    We have to work around our shooters schedules and people now a days are not patient about anything.
    If we only run 1 or 2 shooters at a time how long before folks give up from waiting 15-30 minutes or longer.
    No fun waiting. What do you do with folks shooting all 4 divisions?
    There’s no one plan fits or fixes all issues. I shoot multiple indoor leagues and some are really great and some are not so great. And yes I want the new folks to be happy coming in and when they leave. I do a detailed briefing with every new shooter before they get my line.
    COF is the mandated COF in the league manual, we change COF every month. We have run outlaw match for pocket but after shooting the same COF for years a change was welcome.
    now GSSF has 2 so we swap each month. And agree with you they don’t have much experience. Luckily for me most all my shooters shoot outdoor matches and we have 2 other disciplines shooting in our range.
     
  17. professor309

    professor309

    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    385
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    So, the main reason I'm asking some of these questions is that I want to help bring a new range into the GSSF indoor family. Several of us have seen problems with the two series that we attend. One series simply attended the first one when they decided to put theirs on.

    I had mentioned to the proposed host about running them similar to SARDG. Fill up the available lanes a rotate 2 RO between the lanes alternating shooting so only one was shooting at a time. When the targets are being swapped, the RO moves to the next lane ready.

    So I'm not necessarily trying to criticize the way anyone is doing it, but trying to understand why they are deviation from the way it is actually "intended" to be ran.

    Not a problem there if it is being corrected. They should learn and it is no longer an issue.
    What I see is a ready command being given and some may be out of position. Or they are in low ready and the standby command is giving and guns start popping up on target before the signal.

    Not trying to call you out. But in several matches (not GSSF related) I often here this. "Supposed to be fun" or "it's only for fun" and I cringe when I hear.

    I think the rules cover this and allows for a reshoot as long as it does not get out of hand, I'm ok with that.

    I applaud you for doing this for the shooters. I know many only see it as a revenue generator, but I feel it goes much deeper than that.

    I also appreciate your input and please don't take any of my comments otherwise.
     
  18. Jayman28

    Jayman28

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    744
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    I will give an example of case by case. We have a nice lady who shoots with us every week. She bought a new Glock pistol and saw the GSSF pamphlet and joined.
    She is 64 not the strongest and does struggle with racking the slide and loading mags.
    But she continues to try and get better. She frequently goes 2 shots past the time. Her accuracy is not that great either especially beyond 10 yards but she tries to be diligent in keeping under the par time.
    She hardly ever breaks the 200 point mark. So by the rules I should penalize her 10 points for each shot past the timer. I usually let her shoot alone but at times there will be one or two others. She’s not in the running for a trophy by any means.
    So if I penalize her every time how is that beneficial to her or a disservice to the shooting sport? And she does get a little better every month but I see no reason to penalize her for doing her best. She’s not blatantly cheating. But rules are rules!
     
    jab likes this.
  19. professor309

    professor309

    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    385
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    That's good time management. I try to shoot with a 1 second split and often find myself shooting too fast, much like many of the new shooters as you mentioned before. I try to slow down in pocket a bit more. But it is really tough on me in Stock and Unlimited 5 shot 15s pars, and 10 shot 30s pars. And then going back to 10 shot a 15s par. :) But that is the fun of it.
     
  20. professor309

    professor309

    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    385
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    Keeping them running correctly is the main reason I have seen.