GlockTalk Forum banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
With all the talk about premature wear on the Gen 5’s, I wanted to know if there is a metal treatment below the DLC ( if it was tennifered/nitrided), or was the DLC applied to the bare metal? I ask because I’m curious what the “n” stands for in “nDLC” and also if I made a really stupid, impulsive, extremely overpriced decision.

I feel like an idiot because I spent a stupid amount of money getting two Gen 5 G19 MOS’s as an investment and now (possibly) feel I should have gotten a gen 3 or 4 G19. If the Gen 5 is nitrided underneath the DLC then I won’t care as much because it’s just cosmetic (hopefully). I have half the people telling me it’s Glocks worst finish and the other half telling me it’s the best.

I keep hearing different answers from different people about this. Does anyone know what the reality of the situation is? I did a search and couldn’t find a definitive answer. Thank you in advance to anyone who knows, it is much appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,267 Posts
Glock still does a nitride treatment on the steel parts. Every Glock will wear wherever it rubs. This doesn't affect the gun. Typically whatever the wear is from the moving parts rubbing after ~200 rounds is all it will ever be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,896 Posts
With all the talk about premature wear on the Gen 5’s, I wanted to know if there is a metal treatment below the DLC ( if it was tennifered/nitrided), or was the DLC applied to the bare metal? I ask because I’m curious what the “n” stands for in “nDLC” and also if I made a really stupid, impulsive, extremely overpriced decision.

I feel like an idiot because I spent a stupid amount of money getting two Gen 5 G19 MOS’s as an investment and now (possibly) feel I should have gotten a gen 3 or 4 G19. If the Gen 5 is nitrided underneath the DLC then I won’t care as much because it’s just cosmetic (hopefully). I have half the people telling me it’s Glocks worst finish and the other half telling me it’s the best.

I keep hearing different answers from different people about this. Does anyone know what the reality of the situation is? I did a search and couldn’t find a definitive answer. Thank you in advance to anyone who knows, it is much appreciated.
I doubt you will get an answer to your question, as Glock guards these things closely.

Some DLC finishes have a nitriding step prior, and some have speculated that is what the "n" in "nDLC" means, but we have no way of knowing. I suspect that one of the following are true:
They are gas nitriding, OR they have a nitriding step baked into the nDLC process.

Either way, I don't see it being a major issue. I feel most Glock's will be perfectly fine. If I were choosing, every metal treatment document I have seen states immersion (Tenifer) is the top tier for corrosion and wear resistance (a well known cart/racing shop here does all immersion, no gas nitrocarburizing), but I think it is also probably splitting hairs. A well done gas nitrocarburizing process or a process to nidride with DLC will both probably serve you well.

Preferences will abound, but despite opinions, the various metal treatments and finishes have all yielded servicible weapons.

If you get definative replies from Glock, do share! In another thread I posted photos of machines that do gas nitrocarburization, and pointed out those exact same machines in a photo from a published Glock factory tour. Beyond that, it is speculation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FrankRizzo55

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
What Gen 5 wear issues are you talking about? I have a gen 5 model 45 with a milled slide with around 3,000 rounds through it in a year and many many many holster presentations and it has minimal wear at all. Now look at my gen 3 Glock 21SF (of course it has closer to 10,000 rounds or more and many thousands of holster presentation through it) it looks a little rough.

Corey
 

·
Free Full Clip!
Joined
·
17,094 Posts
With all the talk about premature wear on the Gen 5’s, I wanted to know if there is a metal treatment below the DLC ( if it was tennifered/nitrided), or was the DLC applied to the bare metal? I ask because I’m curious what the “n” stands for in “nDLC” and also if I made a really stupid, impulsive, extremely overpriced decision.

I feel like an idiot because I spent a stupid amount of money getting two Gen 5 G19 MOS’s as an investment and now (possibly) feel I should have gotten a gen 3 or 4 G19. If the Gen 5 is nitrided underneath the DLC then I won’t care as much because it’s just cosmetic (hopefully). I have half the people telling me it’s Glocks worst finish and the other half telling me it’s the best.

I keep hearing different answers from different people about this. Does anyone know what the reality of the situation is? I did a search and couldn’t find a definitive answer. Thank you in advance to anyone who knows, it is much appreciated.
"I’m curious what the “n” stands for in “nDLC”

It probably has something to do with nitriding. I don't know if it's Glocks worst finish because I don't own a Gen 5 and don't want to because other than the removal of the finger grooves there aren't that many critical "Improvements" over previous generations. But I do know that it's not Glocks best finish.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
596 Posts
You could always have the slide sand or bead blasted. This was popular some years ago with folks who liked the two-tone look. I'm in the camp with "fuggitaboutit".

SC
 
  • Like
Reactions: FrankRizzo55

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,460 Posts
I have never seen it stated in any Glock marketing for the Gen 5 or by any Glock representatives that they are nitrided. Is there anything authoritative you can cite that states the Gen 5 pistols are nitrided? I find it suspicious that Glock no longer mentions it since that was a huge selling point for years.
Glock still does a nitride treatment on the steel parts. Every Glock will wear wherever it rubs. This doesn't affect the gun. Typically whatever the wear is from the moving parts rubbing after ~200 rounds is all it will ever be.
 

·
Venor ergo sum
Joined
·
3,293 Posts
I own three gen 5 pistols now. I have shot my G19.5 in action pistol, Marine League, and IDPA. It is approaching 4000 rounds and to spite dusty AZ conditions and kydex holsters, the only unusual wear I am seeing is on the barrel. Seems the finish on the barrel isn't as good as the earlier generations and wears more out toward the muzzle end of the slide. The slide coating seems to be wearing my holsters, lol.

The other two pistols (G26.5 and G34.5) have less rounds but are not showing much wear yet, but again the finish seems to be removing material from my holsters.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
You think if I called Glock they would tell me the answer? I keep hearing that nothing was as good as the original Tennifer process, but I have no basis of comparison. I just hope I didn’t make a mistake investing in the Gen 5 19’s I got. Everyone is price gouging them, and that’s when you can find them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
My Gen 5's are solid. I also shoot a lot in the desert with wind and sand flying everywhere. I have not noticed any premature wear on my 17 or 45. I do have a couple of Tenifer Glocks that are about 30 years old. I have shot the heck out of them and they do have that nice Tenifer patina. I would worry more about finding that ammo to create the wear on the guns rather than if you made a mistake.
Enjoy your Gen 5's!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
852 Posts
I do not care for the Gen5 finish as it comes off too easily on the internal parts. However, it is a great looking finish and I would not be concerned at all that somehow the Gen5 is of less value than the previous generations. The Gen5 is now the Gold Standard of Glocks and eventually it may be what all new Glocks become. While there is a temporary resurgence of buying the Gen4's and Gen 3's, my opinion it's just people that don't accept the Gen5 because reasons. The Gen5 is superior in every way, except possibly the finish. It appears Glock has locked themselves into the nDLC finish and it is here to stay, for the time being at least.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,896 Posts
You think if I called Glock they would tell me the answer? I keep hearing that nothing was as good as the original Tennifer process, but I have no basis of comparison. I just hope I didn’t make a mistake investing in the Gen 5 19’s I got. Everyone is price gouging them, and that’s when you can find them.
No. I have called and emailed many times. On one occassion, one phone attendant did say they have switched to gas nitriding. The challenge is that people answering phones have similar levels of access and training that gun shops have... Meaning, it is possible to get wrong information.

I don't think the Gen 5 purchase is a mistake. I am confident it will serve you very, very well.


Given that a phone rep said they are doing gas nitriding, we have a document in German stating Glock is using gas nitriding starting with Gen4, and we have photographic evidence of machines that do are used in gas nitriding, I think it is safe to say that for at least Gen4, Glock is using gas nitriding. How that changed (or remained the same) for the Gen5's is all speculation.

I don't think you will ever know. But I feel a couple things are certain. Glock will provide a finish that is a balance of "good enough" and "controls costs". I wouldn't expect "best", but I also feel they will provide a finish that will serve their customers quite well, and I am sure the Gen5's will hold up well.

This machine is a muffle (retort) furnace, and is made by IVA-Schmetz. It is commonly used in gas nitriding applications:
upload_2020-10-30_7-56-0.png


This machine can be found in a published photo tour of the Glock facility.
upload_2020-10-30_7-50-45.png
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,896 Posts
You think if I called Glock they would tell me the answer? I keep hearing that nothing was as good as the original Tennifer process, but I have no basis of comparison. I just hope I didn’t make a mistake investing in the Gen 5 19’s I got. Everyone is price gouging them, and that’s when you can find them.
As for nothing being as good as the Tenifer process, Melonite, Tufftride, etc. are the same, so those are equals. There are non-branded processes that are chemically similar (Kleenex/facial tissue, Q-tips/cotton swabs, etc.). In addition, gas nitrocarburizing can be quite good. Certainly "good enough". It is commonly stated that liquid immersion is the gold standard, and has the best corrosion and wear resistance, but gas has advantages, and still works quite well. Both are widely used. Glock clearly made the choice to switch, and it is likely environmental and cost factors were part of that equation.

One example comparing the two. Note, the comparison to untreated metal, etc. is ridiculous for hardness and corrosion resistance. Both of these are at the top of the heap.

A metaphor might be, let's say liquid/immersion nitrocarburizing is LeBron James, Larry Bird, or Michael Jordan. Gas is any other player in the NBA. Untreated or other coatings/platings are middle school kids shooting hoops on the driveway! Totally different league! Any nitrocarburizing (plasma, gas, liquid) can be NBA quality. Once you step away from that, you have the YMCA, backyard basketball goals, and some high school kids dreaming of being at that level!

Even if gas isn't quite at the level of liquid, we are quibbling over NBA players (that compete in the same league!), so we are comparing two things at the 99.9th percentile to scrutinize for very subtle advantages.

The Gen5 will be fine. Maybe not the league MVP, but it can play alongside them and compete and win, and may be a better value if worried about salary cap!
upload_2020-10-30_8-6-49.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: FrankRizzo55

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,877 Posts
I've had zero issues with the Gen5 finish. OP, I'm curious as to what you meant by saying you bought them as an investment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,946 Posts
What Gen 5 wear issues are you talking about? I have a gen 5 model 45 with a milled slide with around 3,000 rounds through it in a year and many many many holster presentations and it has minimal wear at all. Now look at my gen 3 Glock 21SF (of course it has closer to 10,000 rounds or more and many thousands of holster presentation through it) it looks a little rough.

Corey
Same, my Gen 5 19s finish has held up better than my 4s and 3s I've had over the years. The thing I dont like about the finish is how slick it gets when wet. Much prefer the tacky finish of the 19x.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #18

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I've had zero issues with the Gen5 finish. OP, I'm curious as to what you meant by saying you bought them as an investment.
When I said investment I meant getting them now before (and if) Biden becomes president, since he is so radically anti gun. Plus this was the only place I could find that had gen 5 MOS’s in stock.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,946 Posts
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top