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GLOCK Armorer's Course

  1. Hey Guys!

    So as we all know, one of the perks to joining GSSF is the ability to take the GLOCK Armorer's Course, but I don't know anybody who has actually taken the course. There's a class coming up in a month about 15 minutes from my house, but before I drop $250.00 on it I wanted to get some opinions.

    If anybody has taken the course, can they give me a little insight on how the course goes and their opinion on it?

    Also, after taking the course, have you used it to repair anybody else's GLOCK?

    With all of the people in my area who own GLOCKS, it would be nice to make a little money doing something I love - working on guns (GLOCKS)!

    Thanks!
     
  2. Heck I'd like to take it just to work on my own
     
  3. That's my thought as well.
     
  4. Unless you want the "certification" that comes with being a Glock armorer, they're pretty easy to work on.
     
  5. It would be nice to make some money on the side working on GLOCKS.
     
  6. Spend your money on ammo. The course is a waste of money. Glocks are the easiest guns to work on if you have any skill whatsoever. If you can make toast, you can diagnose and swap parts on a Glock.
     
  7. The class is very worthwhile. I first took it in 1997 and have re-certified every 3 years since then. There is no substitute for hands on training and learning how to do things the right way. You will learn far more about Glock pistols than just taking them apart and putting them back together, I have been servicing other peoples Glocks since 1997 but do a lot of free work. I do charge $20.00 for sight installation and alignment.

    I will re-certify again in 2018

    Cost - $250.00 US Length – 8 Hrs (1 Day) Class Hrs – 8am to 5pm Certification – 3 Yrs *Student supplies safety glasses for eye protection and a small flashlight. *GLOCK provides lunch meal unless otherwise noted. *Certified Armorer Certification for all GLOCK Model Pistols (except G18/C Select-Fire models). Morning (8:00 – 12:00) • Introduction • Safety Rules • Safe Action System Design • Function of Safeties • Unloading & Clearing • Field Stripping & Reassembly • Detail Disassembly & Reassembly of Slide Lunch Break Afternoon (1:00 – 5:00) • Detail Disassembly & Reassembly of Receiver • Fire Control Component Configurations / Engagement • Multiple Practice Disassembly & Reassembly of Entire Pistol • Options / Alternate Parts Offered • Sights / Tools • Diagnostics / Trouble Shooting Guides • Review • Written Examination (Minimum Required Score 80%) • Class Completion & Farewell NOTE: This is a generic agenda and may be altered somewhat by the Instructor.
     
  8. I
    Took the course years ago when Gen 1s were still going strong. It was a good course. I don't know if its still taught the same but yea I worked on several pistols for people. I would say now though if your gonna do it, do it because you want to, you know, something to do. Because the reality is. If you can change a light bulb you can work on a glock. Back when I took the class glocks were still fairly new and there were not thousands of you tube videos showing you everything.
     
  9. I've been through it 4 times (5th upcoming), and each time I learn something new. It might be something about the older models that's now known, or something about the new models, or something that's changed in the manufacturing, etc. Keeping up with changes, revisions and refinements isn't a bad thing. Things change all the time.

    It's also occasionally interesting and helpful to listen to the experiences of other armorers attending the course. Sometimes it may be a diagnostic trick you pick up, or even some problems some agency has been experiencing and has either resolved, or may still be trying to resolve. Getting to know the area's Glock LE rep isn't a bad thing to do, either. (It's also a quick way to pick up a couple of parts that you may need, since the instructor and rep usually have a lot of new parts with them and are often generous. ;) )

    While the design is relatively simple and one of the easier ones to maintain, and for which to make simple parts replacement repairs, that doesn't mean everyone attending the classes may not experience any problems, or make some unexpected mistakes, and that's after being given a new armorer manual, watching the instructor demonstrate something and also seeing the computer generated lesson throughout the class. (I sometimes shudder to think of some of the students going back and actually working on duty weapons that hit the street, but then I've usually felt that way with each armorer class I've taken, for all the various makes of firearms, and I've reached the mid-20's for the number of classes I've attended.)

    I think I've seen at least 3 students initially fail the written test in the Glock classes I've attended (1 of them was a guy from a stocking gun store, but a couple others were cops).

    It never hurts to learn more about how the company recommends maintenance, inspections and repairs be done with their guns. ;)

    It's also handy to be able to call and ask to speak with a Glock tech, as an armorer, and get some faster help for warranty parts being sent, or occasionally learn about a new parts revision that hasn't hit the online parts list, etc.

    It's worth going to, in my opinion, and while the price has climbed quite a bit from the earlier days, it's still not out of line with the classes being offered for other makes/models, and still less expensive than many.
     
  10. working on and Knowing how to do it right are TWO Different things! Knowing the correct order to do things makes a difference.

    My last recert one guy "knew everything" he loudly told this to the class.

    He did not pass the test.
     
  11. I have gone to this class and felt it was a good value, I left the class with greater knowledge then when I walked in .

    I am constantly working to enrich myself with additional Knowledge, if that what your looking to do its worth the time and effort, If you expecting to learn the secrets of the world here you will be let down, Your expectations should be to learn how to service a Glock fire arm , Thats what your going to learn,
     
  12. One of the other advantages I didn't specifically mention is that after completing the class you'll have a better insight in understanding some of the GT threads where someone posted they're now having problems with their Glock after having made some "improvements", adding new parts, "completely disassembling it for the first time", etc. ;)
     
  13. Becoming a GT hero, per say LOL. Definitely a perk.
     
  14. I have taken the course several times. In the past it was $100 and has been increased to $250.

    The manual covers more today with the various models especially the 42/43.

    You will be able to buy parts directly from Glock which a non-armorer could not buy. Also the prices are cheaper than other sources but you might have to wait longer.

    My last class I have a Gen 2 19 and the instructor told us to look out for the older style slide lock spring. This skinny spring could fail with a piece in the frame and you would have to get your frame replaced. Glock gave me a replacement part and I potentially avoided having to get a frame replaced if the spring failed.

    I have always learned something new at every class.

    In the past the test was 50 questions that were 2 points each. The new test is 25 questions and 4 points each. They have dumbed it down over the years to make it easier to pass.

    Now the class is more commercial with various accessory items for sale at reduced prices. I bought some trays to hold parts. Since I recertified four times Glock did send me some other items.

    If the class is local and you don't have to get a hotel it is more palatable to take it.

    I don't normally work on other peoples pistols. If you don't have some sort of insurance I would be leary of doing this in the event some one wants to sue you for some reason. Keep that in mind if you want to go down that road.
     
  15. I'd like to take the course. Wish they would offer it before or after some GSSF Matches. I bet people would take it.

    Gary, class size is limited to 33 entries, and it is up to a host to request a class.
     
  16. The schedule is updated weekly, but 2016 is filled.
     
  17. There still appears to be open seats in a lot of the classes. I know for sure theres open seats in the class near my house.
     
  18. All the previous posters pretty much answered your question (I hope)...I've been thru 4 times, learned something new every time and very good refresher training, But, each time it was on someone elses dime...so I guess you just have to evaluate your $ situation and see...personally, I think you should do it at least once to see for yourself
     
  19. The money is the real factor here. I can definitely swing $250 for the class and think that the knowledge gained is worth it, but I have to consider that $250 could go towards another defensive shooting class, a good amount of ammo (November is coming quick!), or even a good chunk towards another GLOCK (I have a GSSF pistol purchase card burning a hole in my pocket).

    Thanks for everyone's input here on the course!
     
  20. Taken it three times, as stated, always fun and something new to learn if you are a Glock fanboy!
     
  21. It's a good course. IIRC, the certificate lets you buy parts from Glock; but that may have changed.

    Best part is you get to ask all the "dumb" questions that seem to play out over and over on GT.

    1) What's tennifer?
    2) Will my glock rust?
    3) Do you need a $.25 trigger job?
    4) is this aftermarket part any good?
    5) can I put this barrel in my GXX?
    6) what's the black finish?
    7) what causes a kaboom?
    8) Should I leave the copper stuff on new guns?
    9) Does a glock need cleaning?

    The instructors are good, and remarkably patient.
    If you're really lucky, they might pull out a G18 and let people put a burst or two through it.

    Not essential; but if you've got the time and money, it's a great way to spend a day.
     
  22. Ammo!!! A gun is nothing more than a paperweight without it.
     
  23. Brains!!! A head is nothing more than a paperweight without it.
     
  24. I took it when I was teaching at the Police Academy. They paid for it. Lasted a full day and I had to take it because we used Glocks at the Academy. Don't think I would pay $200 to take it though.
     
  25. Try to order parts from the factory to replace worn or broken parts.
     
  26. I took the course to gain knowledge. I also started installing aftermarket triggers after the class. Took the class four months ago and installed enough triggers to pay for the class.
     
  27. Why order from the factory? There are at least a dozen other suppliers who sell Glock factory parts. Try a Google search or two.
     
  28. Roadkill made another good point. And of course, to move the sight around they want you to buy a very overpriced and equally simple tool. And the first thing I did was get rid of my factory Glock sights and install the excellent Trijicon night sights, which afford good visibility in both daylight and low light. And generally speaking, most parts that I've replaced have not been Glock factory parts.
     
  29. You can buy the same parts from Glock, for the same price the aftermarket vendors pay for theirs when they buy them from Glock ... or you can buy them from the vendors after they've put on their profit. Kinda depends how many parts you're buying at a time, how quickly you want them, and whether you want to pay wholesale or retail.
     
  30. So a part they pay $2 for may cost me $5. I am ok with that, I am more concerned with quick delivery so retail is fine with me. I have only ever had to replace a couple parts.

    Glocks are cheaply made and are just one step above Hi-point or Keltec but they generally just keep on chugging.
     
  31. I've done the same thing, if it was only 1 or 2 less expensive parts. Just depends what you need and how fast you need it. Convenience can be worth a little extra cost, at times.

    Now, if you're serving as an armorer, trying to stock enough spare parts at retail, versus wholesale, can result in the cost accruing pretty quickly. ;)

    It's not a bad thing to get to know the area Glock rep, either. ;)
     
  32. When all is said and done, though, the $250 cost, as well as any additional incurred cost, like travel (and lodging, maybe), and time off from work, may not make it practical for many folks.

    The armorer class is probably a better, or maybe a more practical, investment for the agency armorer, gun store employee (especially if the store foots the cost) or serious enthusiast (like a competitor). That $250, plus any additional accrued costs, is worth a lot of ammunition & range time, and is almost half the cost of some of the guns, even at retail in some places. ;)

    Each individual has gotta balance priorities. If you think the Glock class is expensive, look at the cost for a private citizen to attend a SIG Classic armorer class.
     
  33. Agreed, you can't have too many good contacts.
     
  34. I finally took the course, about a month or so ago. Yes, $250 is a bit pricey, but I did enjoy it and got some insightful information out of it. As for renewing in 3 yrs, that is up for debate. But if you divide 3yrs into $250, that is $83.33 a yr. Two meals eating out, one GSSF match if you shoot 3 Divs, etc...So the price really isn't too bad.

    Semper Fi :usmc:
     
  35. I took it last week. I took it, after 25 years of working on Glocks, because it was a prerequisite for the 3-day Glock instructor course I also took last week.

    If you have a need for the certification, it is a good course. As far as I recall, I didn't learn anything I didn't know, but was happy to see that Glock agrees with me about pretty much every opinion I have on Glock shooting, malfunctions and repairs.

    If you just want to learn to fix Glocks, you could learn as much from the internet in a day - it is basically disassembly, reassembly, function checks and parts replacement - learning about the cycle of functioning and which parts are involved and that type of thing. There isn't really any other type of gunsmithing that is applicable to Glocks, contrary to the opinions of those who keep making them nonfunctional, then starting threads about it here (many Glock Talk topics, such as "limpwristing" shooters and the "$.25 trrigger job" were mentioned). If you are already involved in gunsmithing it is useful to learn about Glocks, but it won't make you any type of gunsmith or have much application to fixing any other gun.

    I like having it on my "shooting resume" but I have testified in court as an expert on Glock functioning long before I ever took this class.

    They did provide lunch, but I took the course in a prison, so we had fried chicken in the staff canteen - I may be due a partial refund (it was pretty good chicken).
     
  36. If you actually have potential to make money as a Glock armorer, take the course.

    If you want to learn to fix Glocks, it is not worth $250 to learn. Spend the money on more useful things.

    I took it because I wanted it on my resume and I didn't have to pay for it.
     
  37. Where are Glock armorers with dear B. Hussein's new $2,250 licensing fee for gunsmiths? It is utter and complete bull****, but it's the law for now.
    Moon
     
  38. A Glock Armorer is not a gunsmith
     
  39. For me personally, I would spend it on ammo (reloading components more precisely) or likely a defensive handgun class (doing more of these as I have started to carry earlier this year).

    On the other hand, it would be better for the Glock community if you took it. Having one more person out there when the next, "I took my Glock apart, didn't change anything, really, and now it shoots all by itself" thread pops up? Well, having even one more person out there that might be close to that person and can take a look, that has to be a good thing. :)
     
  40. A "GLOCK-smith", perhaps? :supergrin:
     
  41. Glocksmith, yes. Gunsmith, no.
     
  42. Most LE armorers aren't gunsmiths, although I've knew a couple of them who were also licensed gunsmiths.
     
  43. If you order a lot of parts, you will save money, because the stuff retailers charge you $6.95 for costs about $1 from Glock.

    On the other hand, I have a big box of Glock parts that I have had and carried to major matches for at least 10-12 years. So far all I have ever used from it is a spring cup to replace one I lost during disassembly. So being able to order cheap parts may not add up to much.
     
  44. That depends what 'is' means. My understanding is that their definition of a gunsmith is anyone who does work that enhances the accuracy of a gun. That is at least as broad as it is long, and the directive does not come from the BATF, but rather from the Department of Homeland Security.
    Not meaning to argue about it, but it seems something we should all at least be aware of, particularly since there is a $2,250 yearly fee, and, presumably, penalties for non compliance.
    Moon
     
  45. I took the course about five years ago with my son, and it was a fun, interesting day. I had never disassembled my Glocks beyond field stripping, so I learned a lot about parts nomenclature, the right way to disassemble/reassemble, common mistakes to avoid when working on a Glock, safe maintenance practices and basic troubleshooting. The enjoyment and practical knowledge gained made my enrollment cost worthwhile, but the cost was not an issue for me.

    If cash is tight, spend your $250 on training or ammo. There are lots of on-line videos about taking Glocks apart that can serve as an intro to detail stripping for cleaning and parts replacement. The reality about owning a Glock is that field-strip cleaning is all that's really needed for reliable operation, and parts failure usually isn't a problem unless you shoot a lot more than most of us do.

    Add the armorer's class to your bucket list of things to do when cash is plentiful. It's just a fun and interesting way to spend a day, especially if you can do it with a friend or family member. My son and I competed for the best test score; he won, but he studied before class day.
     
  46. I agree. I took the course last year. I admit, you can watch some Youtube videos and buy a couple of books and figure out how to take a Glock apart. On the other hand having an armorer there to point out the real right way and wrong way to do things, things you should avoid doing, and the differences among the various models is much more worthwhile than a video.

    You end up with the ability to actually service someone else's Glock to Glock specifications, buy parts from Glock, and get a good manual that covers the different generations and models. Plus when I took it in Gettysburg I got a surprisingly filling lunch!
     
  47. The Armorers Course is on my short list of things to do after the first of the year.
     
  48. I took the course almost a year before the Pocket Pistols came out, and as a result was pretty confident detail stripping the older guns, but was a bit dumbfounded with the changes in the 42 & 43. So I buttonholed the armorer at the last match (who was the same guy that taught our course) and he gave me a crash course on the changes in the Pocket Glock. Well worth the money IMHO. I especially liked the 6 "Function Checks" you should do with every Glock you pick up to make sure they're in tip-top condition!
    There's all kinds of nonsense on You Tube, from self-taught "Experts".
     
  49. But don't quit your day job. Kinda like the old "Maytag Repairman" Ads. People who'll pay you to monkey with their Glocks are few and far between.