Glock and +P/+P+ ammo

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by 88M, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. MajorD

    MajorD

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    Various le agencies have been using plus p and +p+ since the late eighties in glocks it will maybe accelerate wear a little and that is it. Replacing parts is a solution in search of a problem. While I hold my guns dear the glock in the grand scheme of things is a cheap date shoot it until it wears out ( probably one of your grand kids will do this after you are long gone) they buy another one
     
  2. SouthernBoyVA

    SouthernBoyVA

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    I seem to recall tnoutdoors9 once reporting that the Winchester Ranger 127gr JHP +P+ (RA9TA) cartridge generated 42,000 psi as opposed to +P specs of 38,500 psi. Can't find the video with a quick look, but it's out there.
     

  3. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    With only quarterly qualifying (50 rounds?), I shoot more in a day than the average LEO shoots in qualifying over 5 years. Some agencies shoot more but around here the required course of fire is just under 50 rounds.

    I would expect to see a little more wear.

    Richard
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
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  4. nraman

    nraman

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    This is an opinion, not facts.
    I believe that when a reputable company like WW markets ammo as +P+ that has no specification, to avoid any legal issues, they make the ammo under CIP or NATO standards, both at higher pressures than SAAMI and then stick the +P+ label which is cooler and then they sell it as LE only.
    This way they are dealing with departments and armorers and can be certain that the pistols can handle the ammo.
     
  5. NYresq

    NYresq

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    There are several Fed agencies using 9mm +P+ rounds for range and duty and they are not blowing up glocks. If it was a deal breaker, they would switch rounds or switch guns.

    All glock pistols before they leave the factory are safety tested with two 130% over pressure rounds. (and 5 rounds for accuracy). +P+ is well under that limit.

    I wouldn't worry about using +P+ ammo for a carry round. I wouldnt use it as a steady diet at the range if it was my personal gun, but a box of the heavy stuff a couple times a year isn't going to kill a glock.
     
  6. PattonT

    PattonT

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    What federal agency have you seen carrying a 9mm Glock? The only 9mm I have seen have been Sigs with the State Department and DOE. I know the FBI has some 9mm supposedly but all the FBI I have seen and talked to have G22.
     
  7. AgentM79

    AgentM79

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    If an agency or shooter actually follows the recommended parts replacement schedule, .40/.357 guns will not have significantly shortened service lives. Recoil springs are especially important in these calibers. That's one of the reasons Glock went with the Gen4 RSA re-design.

    Many agencies replace Glocks within 10 years to take advantage of generous trade-ins offered through Glock and it's distributors. Night sights get dim over time, and a proper rebuild (including the sights, 9 springs, and various other parts) costs almost as much as a brand-new gun under the trade-in program. That's why there have been so many Glock LE trade-in guns available over the years.
     
  8. NYresq

    NYresq

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    HSI has some 9mm glocks and State Department in some overseas posts carry 9mm glocks. Those are two off the top of my head that I have worked with personally. Some of the uniformed services of various agencies do as well...
     
  9. fortyofforty

    fortyofforty

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    And some federal agencies allow agents to carry personally owned 9mms, despite what is issued in the academies. Almost all overseas posts are outfitted with issued 9mms, as well.
     
  10. ScipioAfricanus

    ScipioAfricanus

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    ^^^This.

    The 9mm is an excellent round for killing children and small women.

    But with large fully grown adult male criminals - the kinda guys who played [or at least could have played] some NCAA Div 1 football or basketball or lacrosse or superheavyweight wrestling - receiving a 9mm wound is only going to anger them and make them want to unleash even more hurt upon you and the rest of the inhabitants of your domicile.

    In all honesty, even rounds getting out towards 40S&W aren't up to the task, unless you get the opportunity for a very rare head shot:

    https://www.trapshooters.com/threads/what-pistol-did-darren-wilson-use.232596/

    If you're shooting a Glock, then to be certain of putting down a very large fully grown adult male criminal, you really wanna be looking at some of the hotter 10mm rounds, from 650ft-lbs out towards 800ft-lbs.

    PS: I don't even know how well a standard ["cool" not hot] 9mm would work on a charging pitbull - that's a ton of breastplate to penetrate for such a weak round. I could easily see having to unload an entire magazine of cool 9mm rounds simply to slow down a large & vicious pitbull [much less actually kill it].
     
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  11. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Nothing? Hotter ammo does induce more wear, just fact. Why 357sigs get beat up sooner than 9mm but its more recoil than 3-4000 higher pressures.
     
  12. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Wow, a lot of BS right there. Service calibers like 9mm, 40 & 45 have been burying bad guys for a few decades. Though I have seen some big dudes that would certainly getting head shots, regardless of caliber.
     
  13. ScipioAfricanus

    ScipioAfricanus

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    Read this thread, and study the coroner's report:

    https://www.trapshooters.com/threads/what-pistol-did-darren-wilson-use.232596/

    If your bad guys are 4'11" tall and weigh 85lbs, then 9mm might suffice.

    But if your bad guys 6'5" tall and weigh 375lbs, then fuhgeddaboudit.
     
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  14. ScipioAfricanus

    ScipioAfricanus

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  15. slamdunc

    slamdunc JAFO

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    Not really.
    Umm, yep!
    I'll preface this by saying I'm a .40 S&W fan (maybe even a fan-boy), but I'm also a realist. If you are putting 9mm rounds on target, hitting vitals, it is going to drop the bad guy just as quickly as the .40, 10mm or .45. Shot placement trumps caliber/energy every time.
     
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  16. ScipioAfricanus

    ScipioAfricanus

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    If you're shooting 9mm at 250 ft-lbs to 350 ft-lbs, and if you're going up against a 6'5" 375 pound fully grown adult male criminal, then you aren't going to hit vitals, because your bullets aren't going to pass through the breast plate.

    And in a real world fire fight, there's no way in hell that the average LEO [or the average soldier/marine] is gonna make the mythical head shot.

    Your best bet is to shoot at the abdomen, and hope that you hit the abdominal aortic artery, and that the criminal bleeds out very quickly. But if the criminal is too fat, and if the round is too "cool", then you might not even be able to hit the AAA.

    I've never had to shoot at a pitbull - yet! - but I've always surmised that trying to shoot around to the dogs side, and hoping to hit its soft underbelly, is your best bet with a low-powered handgun like the 9mm.

    Because I doubt that most 9mm rounds can penetrate an adult pitbull's breastplate [unless maybe you're shooting +P or +P+].

    And if the dog is running full speed at you, then, as above, there's no way in hell that you're gonna make the mythical head shot.
     
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  17. collim1

    collim1

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    The guide rod is a moot point. The gun will cycle without one. The guide rods only job is to assist with reassembly.

    Save the money and spend it elsewhere.

    Factory +P ammo will not hurt it at all. I haven’t seen +P+ 9mm in years.
     
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  18. GunsNweights87

    GunsNweights87

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    Lol dude you seriously gotta recheck your info on ballistics 9mm 40 45 all penetrate the same or to where it’s not going to matter


    Sent from my iPhone using Glock Talk
     
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  19. Top Glock10mm

    Top Glock10mm Previously Jisbell40

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    +p is saami recognized. +p+ is not. We feed ours +p+ all the time in our department
     
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  20. slamdunc

    slamdunc JAFO

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    Don't try to confuse him with facts, some people get their ballistic information from action/adventure movies and don't buy into real-world studies and those old FBI gel test thingys.
     
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