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I sent him my new style extractor since he DID say that his slide would be compatible with it. I measured both of my safety plungers, the one that came in my G44 (old style extractor) and the new spare safety plunger. My extractor plunger fit just fine as did the firing pin assembly.

His father personally called me to discuss the issues. Let's see how they fix the issues and how long it takes.
 

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Discussion Starter #322
I sent him my new style extractor since he DID say that his slide would be compatible with it. I measured both of my safety plungers, the one that came in my G44 (old style extractor) and the new spare safety plunger. My extractor plunger fit just fine as did the firing pin assembly.

His father personally called me to discuss the issues. Let's see how they fix the issues and how long it takes.
That's fair with respect to the new extractor. I may do the same. I just printed my pre-paid shipping label. I probably won't mail it out until tomorrow morning.

Did you discuss the fact the slide finish scratched easily with him? Do you think the finish will hold up to a kydex holster?
 

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I wonder if some of this could have been avoided if they offered a complete slide package with all internals? That might have driven the cost up too high for those that don’t mind swapping them out.

I’m sad to hear about everyone’s problems, but am happy to hear that customer service is working hard to fix it.

Does anyone know how many slides they pre-sold?


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Discussion Starter #324
I received my NDZ Performance gen 4-5 G19 guide rod, guide rod adapter, 13 lb spring and 15 lb spring today. As I expected, the guide rod adapter didn't fit my G44. The smaller outer diameter of the NDZ Performance guide rod adapter is 11.30 mm. In comparison, the outer diameter of the smaller Nelson Precision washer is 10.30 mm. The opening in the G44 measures 10.35 mm. The opening in the G19.5 measures 11.35 mm.

@G8V8, I'm not sure how you got your NDZ Performance guide rod adapter to fit your G44. It fits my G19.5 just fine, but not my G44.

The NDZ Performance gen 4-5 guide rod tool worked great with the NDZ Performance gen 4-5 G19 guide rod kit. The NDZ Performance rod tool also worked with the Nelson Precision adjustable weight recoil spring assembly. You just need to drop the larger washer into the tool first, followed by the recoil spring and guide rod. Once the guide rod protrudes through the top of the tool, you can position the smaller washer / bushing and secure the screw.

One suggestion ... you'd normally use Blue Loctite on the hex screw threads of a modular recoil spring assembly.
 

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That's fair with respect to the new extractor. I may do the same. I just printed my pre-paid shipping label. I probably won't mail it out until tomorrow morning.

Did you discuss the fact the slide finish scratched easily with him? Do you think the finish will hold up to a kydex holster?
I did discuss the issue of how easily the finish scratched with Jermey's father when he called me. I also mentioned it in my email to Jeremy. At this point I don't know how well it will hold up to a kydex holster.
 

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Discussion Starter #326
I wonder if some of this could have been avoided if they offered a complete slide package with all internals?
I was thinking the same thing. The problem may be the availability of parts. I don't know if Nelson Precision could source the parts directly from Glock. Places like Midwest Gun Works have a rather significant mark-up and availability is sketchy.

Does anyone know how many slides they pre-sold?
I haven't heard and I don't dare ask at this point. Last I heard (Saturday), they'd only shipped 10% of the Nelson Precision 44X slides (all of the BoogeyMan Customs 44X Voodoo slides had shipped). Hopefully, they were able to catch a few slides before they shipped out.
 

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I received my NDZ Performance gen 4-5 G19 guide rod, guide rod adapter, 13 lb spring and 15 lb spring today. As I expected, the guide rod adapter didn't fit my G44. The smaller outer diameter of the NDZ Performance guide rod adapter is 11.30 mm. In comparison, the outer diameter of the smaller Nelson Precision washer is 10.30 mm. The opening in the G44 measures 10.35 mm. The opening in the G19.5 measures 11.35 mm.

@G8V8, I'm not sure how you got your NDZ Performance guide rod adapter to fit your G44. It fits my G19.5 just fine, but not my G44.

The NDZ Performance gen 4-5 guide rod tool worked great with the NDZ Performance gen 4-5 G19 guide rod kit. The NDZ Performance rod tool also worked with the Nelson Precision adjustable weight recoil spring assembly. You just need to drop the larger washer into the tool first, followed by the recoil spring and guide rod. Once the guide rod protrudes through the top of the tool, you can position the smaller washer / bushing and secure the screw.

One suggestion ... you'd normally use Blue Loctite on the hex screw threads of a modular recoil spring assembly.
You are right. I am very sorry for the miss-information. At the time I was looking into ways to get a lighter RSA for the G44 slide if the OE G44 RSA was to stiff to use with the G44x and Holosun MRDS and Nelson had not yet announced their RSA. The adapter seemed to drop in place and it actually cycled fine when I shot it. After your observation, I put it in and looked at it more closely and can see that the adapter does not sit in the slide as it should. It does seem to locate itself but in actuality it was resting with only the lower half of it's outer diameter in the lower half of the larger diameter hole in the slide. It did not move around and cycling it did not feel unusual. All I can guess it that in trying other rods, I had problems keeping the breech end on the guide rod in the correct location on the barrel. The NDZ rod has a rear plate closer to the OEM RSA and when it arrived I was fixated on that end and did not notice that the muzzle end only seemed to fit correctly when, in fact, it only "sort-of, half-ass fit". My apologies.
 

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Discussion Starter #328
The NDZ rod has a rear plate closer to the OEM RSA and when it arrived I was fixated on that end and did not notice that the muzzle end only seemed to fit correctly when, in fact, it only "sort-of, half-ass fit". My apologies.
No apology necessary. I respect your opinion. I just wanted to ensure I wasn't missing something. I thought maybe I'd ordered a different part.

I have a funny feeling we'll see G44 guide rod adapter from NDZ Performance shortly.

From everything I've seen, Nelson Precision is correct ... they have the first and only adjustable weight (modular) recoil spring assembly for the G44.
 

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No apology necessary. I respect your opinion. I just wanted to ensure I wasn't missing something. I thought maybe I'd ordered a different part.

I have a funny feeling we'll see G44 guide rod adapter from NDZ Performance shortly.

From everything I've seen, Nelson Precision is correct ... they have the first and only adjustable weight (modular) recoil spring assembly for the G44.
Thank you. I think they are right about the RSA.
 

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Discussion Starter #330
Before I mailed back my 44X slides this morning, I captured a few more weights (subject to the accuracy of my digital postal scale). The results are reflected in post #300 (<- link).

In the four rightmost columns, I've subtracted the weight of the respective RMR cut cover plate (Nelson Precision and BoogeyMan Customs ... I found the BoogeyMan Customs cover plate to weigh slightly less) and calculated (approximated) the weight of all four 44X slide models with all three MRDS's. Again, these are just approximations.

I removed the weight of the NDZ Performance modular recoil spring assembly as it's not fully compatible with the G44 and 44X slides at this time.

Let me know if you see any major discrepancies. I need a better scale. ;)
 

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Here is the weights I got before trying to assemble my slide. I used my digital kitchen scale that was checked with my 20 gram and 50 gram precision check weights.

Stripped slide with RMR cover - 5.6 ounces/158 grams
Stripped slide without cover - 5.3 ounces/150 grams
RMR cover plate - 0.3 ounces/8 grams
Nelson gold slide cover plate* - 0.1 ounces/ 2 grams
Nelson RSA - 1.0 ounces/ 27 grams

* using my PACT digital scale
Nelson slide cover - 1.78 grams
OEM slide cover - 2.17 grams
 

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Discussion Starter #332 (Edited)
(top of "Glock 44X" thread)

Modular Recoil Spring Assembly

NPM offers a G44 Adjustable Weight Recoil Spring Assembly.

The weight of the NPM modular Recoil Spring Assembly (RSA) is not "adjustable" per se. You simply use an allen wrench to remove the hex screw and replace the included 13 lb recoil spring with any aftermarket Glock 19 gen 3 recoil spring. NPM has suggested the lightest suitable recoil spring weight is 13 lb.

Note: Several users have reported the 44X slides do not consistently go into battery with the NPM modular RSA. Some users are attempting to pair the NPM modular RSA with a lighter (e.g., 4.5#) firing pin spring. Other users have had success cutting coils from the inner and outer springs of an OEM Glock 44 (dual) RSA. More on this topic to come.


(NPM G44 Adjustable Weight Recoil Spring Assembly)


(NPM G44 Adjustable Weight Recoil Spring Assembly)


(NPM G44 Adjustable Weight Recoil Spring Assembly)

NDZ Performance offers a gen 4 - 5 modular RSA for a G19, G19X, G23, G32, G38 and G45. However, the guide rod adapter is too big for the G44 and NPM / BMC 44X slides,


(NDZ Performance Guide Rod Adapter)

GlockTalk member @G8V8 observed the silver disk on the end of the NPM guide rod is smaller in diameter than the silver disk on the end of the OEM RSA and NDZ Performance RSA,


(from left to right: OEM G44 RSA, NDZ Performance gen 4 - 5 Modular Guide Rod; NPM Modular Guide Rod)

The NPM guide rod assembly was slipping off the curved shelf on the barrel (meant to accept the silver disk of the RSA) onto the the upper, flat shelf. He transferred the small gold washer / bushing, larger gold washer and recoil spring from the NPM modular RSA to the NDZ Performance guide rod (and screw) creating a hybrid NPM / NDZ Performance modular RSA,


(Hybrid NPM / NDZ Performance Modular RSA)

Here's a comparison of the OEM Glock 44 RSA and the NPM RSA with the included 13 lb ISMI recoil spring,


This is the Baoshishan Digital Force Gauge (10 kgf / 22.5 lbf / 100 N) and test stand used to capture the measurements,


A 3D-printed jig (gray / silver part on the left) holds the recoil spring assembly,


Here is the NPM RSA with the included 13 lb. ISMI recoil spring almost fully compressed,


The overall length of travel is broken up into equal increments by simply turning the hand wheel one rotation at a time.

With the OEM RSA, this yielded 25 increments. With the NPM RSA, this yielded 24 increments (the total length of travel with the NPM RSA is slightly shorter).

The slight "up tick" at the end is the point at which the RSA's are almost completely compressed. The maximum force is likely somewhere in between the last two samples. In both cases, this is approximately 13 lbf.

The NPM RSA had a 13 lb spring, so that makes sense.

The OEM RSA "dual" spring design appears to increase (while still linear) the minimum force while yielding a maximum force of 13 lb.

Clearly, this chart suggests the maximum force of a RSA doesn't tell the full story.

It seems evident the NPM RSA with a 13 lb ISMI recoil spring could be considered "reduced power" as compared to the OEM RSA.

Guide Rod Tool

The NDZ Performance gen 4-5 guide rod tool ($17.99) works with the NPM RSA, however, the tip of a NPM RSA is about 1 mm smaller than a gen 4-5 RSA for which the NDZ Performance tool was designed,


A guide rod tool was 3D-printed specifically for the NPM RSA and other DIY RSA's incorporating the NPM small gold washer / bushing,


The NPM RSA larger "washer", recoil spring and guide rod are inserted from the bottom. After releasing the spring tension, the hex screw and smaller washer / bushing can be removed and replaced from the top.

 

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Discussion Starter #333
This is a video of a Nelson Precision 44X slide running with the modified safety cut on the breech block and the new extractor,

From the YouTube video comments,

Nelson Precision Manufacturing 44x slow motion cycling. The slide in the video has the new design glock extractor. We ran 100rds through it, It ran flawlessly.
 

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100 rounds?
Talk to me after 1,000 then 2,000 then 5,000 rounds.


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I have a lot to learn. My initial measurements suggest the OEM Glock 44 "dual" RSA is closer to 20 lbs. I should be able to easily capture and plot the spring force across the entire range of travel.

More to come!

Can you measure the stock spring be a 19 Gen 5 spring for comparison?
 

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Discussion Starter #336
100 rounds?
Talk to me after 1,000 then 2,000 then 5,000 rounds.
Fair point! I'd suggest the industry-standard benchmark for a new aftermarket Glock slide (prior to the time the slide first ships) is 10,000 - 15,000 rounds. I alluded to the sh|t show which is the Palmetto State Armory Dagger ($299.99 MSRP Glock gen 3 G19 knock-off) launch. PSA had issues with wear. These issues didn't show up until after 10,000 rounds. PSA ended up completely revamping the coating.

Just FYI, this is the ammo Nelson Precision has run through the 44X slides. According to Nelson Precision, this ammo has run flawlessly from day one up until today. I have no idea of the round count the 44X slides have been subjected to.



 

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Discussion Starter #337
Can you measure the stock spring be a 19 Gen 5 spring for comparison?
This may seem like a lame excuse, but my 3D-printed jig is specific to G44 RSA's. I'll work on 3D-printing a G19.5 jig this evening (we'll see ... I'm a "few" beers in, hence my screen name).

I'm still trying to understand how best to measure RSA force. The force increases exponentially in the final micrometers of travel. The force gauge generates an alarm once the spring is fully compressed. The question then becomes how far do you back off the spring before you take the measurement. I suspect the best approach is to measure the force across the entire range of travel (which will result in a "plot"). The force gauge is capable of capturing (and exporting via USB) multiple data points. Of course, this would require I actually read the instructions. ;)

I suggested the OEM G44 RSA was closer to 20 lbs. I suspect this measurement may have been taken with the spring too close to being full compressed. Give me a chance to 3D-print a G19.5 jig. And see if I can't generate a plot of the force across the entire range of travel. Damn! I hate reading the instructions.
 

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Discussion Starter #338 (Edited)

Update

One more update ...

Not only did I return my Nelson Precision and BoogeyMan Customs 44X slides with two sets of internal parts, I also included a set of Trijicon tritium suppressor-height sights.

The good news ...

The Trijicon tritium suppressor-height sights FIT. I know several of you plan to replace the Nelson Precision iron (aluminum) sights with your suppressor-height sights of choice. As I've emphasized before,

Nelson Precision Manufacturing recommends being extremely careful in trying to install rear iron sights other than those included with the 44X slides. Jeremy Nelson has said other sights MAY fit, however, never force a rear iron sight as it may crack the dovetail cut.
Refer to Iron Sights and Dovetail Cut.

In other news ...

I assume by now everyone knows Jeremy is paying to have all of the pre-ordered Nelson Precision and BoogeyMan Customs 44X slides cerakoted (cerakoted over the botched military-specification MIL-A-8625 type III treatment). All future 44X slide runs will return to the more durable MIL-A-8625 type III treatment.

It should also be noted ...

Both Nelson Precision and BoogeyMan Customs use a MIL-A-8625 type II treatment on their RMR cover plates. This is why your cover plate didn't match your slide.
 

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Did not know about the cerakote. A little disappointing about the botched hard coat. With that being said, when my 19.5 and 43x were MRDS cut they were cerakoted and it is holding up well.
 

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In the interest of those concerned about putting sights on their aluminum slides, pay attention to the underside of the sights. Some have a solid base ad would need to be filed to fit so as not to “possibly” damage the slide. Others, like Ameriglo have a hollow in the base and are much easier to press fit. I don’t know about ALL ameriglo sights, but I’ve more than 10 sets over the years and they all had the hollow in the base. They went in securely and none have moved. Just a thought, for those wanting sights and a red dot.

Personally, I will not run any backup sights on mine. There just doesn’t seem to be any point for me, but I understand that others will want them.


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