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Glock 30 Failure to Feed

Discussion in 'The Big Dawgs Club' started by Cass, Feb 23, 2004.

  1. Cass

    Cass

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    I bought a new Glock 30 and shot about 150 rounds through it yesterday. I had 3 failures to feed. Each time the 9th round nosed up and jammed against the top edge of the chamber with the 10th round trying to follow behind it.

    It happened twice with Armscor brass cased ball ammo and once with Federal 230 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP. I've had a Glock 21 for some time and have never had any failures with the same ammo.

    I used the two new Glock 30 magazines and one new Glock 21 magazine. The failures all came with the G30 mags, the G21 mag had no problems. The G30 mags have the "1" follower and the G21 mag has the 3955 follower.

    Any ideas as to the cause? I have to say I was surprised since I have never had a single failure of any type with my 21.

    Thanks,
    Cass
     
  2. Backfire

    Backfire

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    Cass, maybe the feed lips on those magazines are too spread apart to provide constant proper guidance into the chamber. However, the fact that only the last couple of rounds are problemmatic puzzles me. When I observed my Model 21 feeding when I manually and slowly released the slide on a full magazine of Hydra-Shocks just to check on the feeding, it appeared impossible for the 21 to do anything but feed correctly. The rounds are pointed almost straight into the chamber. The problem you describe happened to me with worn/spread magazine lips with three of my 1911 Colt .45 acp's and usually affected the last round or two in the magazine for some reason(arrrgggghhh!) I suspect that, as the guns were fired, the loss of total weight of each gun resulted in the inertia imparted by recoil forces to overcome the weak "grip" those magazine lips had on the last round or two. The rounds (hardball) were literally "thrown up" through the lips instead of being fed into the chamber, usually getting stuck against the upper edge of the chamber mouth (Government Model, Combat Commander and eventually, Colt Officer's Model).

    Maybe someone else here has some ideas about the problem with your 30. I hope it can be remedied...it doesn't seem likely that the lips on both magazines of yours (new I suppose) are faulty, but who knows? Maybe more breaking in is needed?

    ;Q
     

  3. MrMurphy

    MrMurphy ********* Moderator Lifetime Member Millennium Member

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    Can't say I've heard of that one yet. I've had my 30 since '99, shot thousands of rounds through it and carried it for the last three years. But that's a new one to me. Hmmm. My carry load is Hydra-Shoks and it's always fed them except once, when some really dirty range loads left some funky buildup on the feed ramp, a quick scrub of it off and it once again fed fine.


    If it's a brand new piece, try some Remington UMC FMJ loads (which has always worked well for me) or Winchester White Box. South African ammo can be funky in pistols (seen a couple FTF's in 9mm) sometimes, though usually it's very high quality.
     
  4. Cass

    Cass

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    Thanks, guys. I put another 170 rounds through it last night. I used the two G30 mags and 3 G21 mags. I used Fiocchi ball, Armscor ball, and Fed 230 gr Hydra-Shoks.

    I had the same problem one time on the 5th magazine full. It had the same 9th round jam. This time it was with a G21 mag. The G21 mags have the 3955 follower vs. the "1" follower in the G30 mags. I had suspected the mags, but this rules that out.

    I think I'll call Glock and see what they say.

    Cass
     
  5. Cass

    Cass

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    The feed ramp does have an uneven edge that is sort of scalloped with a ridge in the center. I don't see how that would affect only the 9th round, but it looks add to me. I'll attach a picture.

    Cass
     
  6. cwood

    cwood

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    It is both easy and effective. Remove the barrel.

    Get a piece of 1/2" wooden dowel rod and cut it to about 6" long. Get a sheet of 400 grit wet/dry abrasive paper or emory cloth. Using a small piece of the abrasive, wrap it around the dowel and polish the feed ramp in a stroking motion back and forth in the direction of bullet movement. You will notice that as the dark coloring comes off you will see machine tool marks on the ramp. Your goal is to polish the ramp until those marks are gone and the ramp is shiny and smooth.

    I have been doing this on every automatic I have owned for years and it dramatically reduces Fail to Feed problems. For 9mm and .40 use 3/8" dowel. For .22 us 1/4" dowel. Try it, I hope it helps you.
     
  7. Backfire

    Backfire

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    Based on your picture, the feed ramp doesn't look like the problem. You did say that the round wound up jammed against the top of the chamber edge. A feed ramp problem usually causes rounds to jam in a slightly downward position, for example, with the nose of the round caught against the bottom edge of the feed ramp.

    Maybe a picture of the actual jam you are describing would be helpful to us to diagnose the problem. It's puzzling to me, since proper magazine lips should prevent those rounds from being able to angle so high as to impact directly on the upper rim of the chamber.

    Have you carefully and slowly observed the feeding process with a full magazine while manually operating the slide? (Best done safely at the range!);) This is not the same as the gun feeding itself during normal firing, with recoil forces at work, but it might give some hint of a geometry problem that might be affecting your gun's feeding. There has to be an answer.
     
  8. lendringser

    lendringser Wheelgunner

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    I have heard that the Armscor ammo is often pretty grossly out of spec. Try a few different kinds of ammo in the G30 before you blame it on the gun...it might be ammo-related.
     
  9. Cass

    Cass

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    I don't think the Armscor ammo is a problem, since my G21 loves it. The Federal had the same failure.

    I talked to Glock and they thought it was odd too. He suspected the magazines, but thats hard for we to understand considering it also happened with the G21 mag.

    They offered to send a call tag for me to send the pistol back to them. I'll take them up on it and see what they can find.

    Cass
     
  10. Backfire

    Backfire

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    Cass, check out the link below. Seems that a design flaw in new model 21's and 30's magazines may be your problem. The feedway jams described in the link below ("The Gun Zone") seem to be the same weird thing you have experienced, only the jams here occur to the top several rounds in the magazines. There seems to be a problem with the balancing of magazine spring strength, magazine flexibilty, slide velocity and maybe even frame flexibility. If this is true, there ought to be a hanging at Glock. Other than the inexcusable jam-prone 2183 followers for the model 19 magazines, my model 19 (year 2000)with replacement 9mm-3 followers and model 21 (factory stock,year 2001) have been perfect performers. Please let us know what Glock has to say. Thanks.

    http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/problems2004.html
     
  11. Cass

    Cass

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    Wow, that is amazing. Thanks for the link.

    The first reaction when I called was "send the magazines back and we'll swap them out". I did question that theory since it was two different type magazines bought at separate times. It was only after I described the feed ramp that he suggested sending the pistol back. I'll still send it all back to make sure.

    I'll let you know how it comes out.

    Thanks,
    Cass
     
  12. Cass

    Cass

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    I just got it back from Glock today. The repair receipt reads:

    INSPECTED
    SMOOTH OUT FEED RAMP
    MEETS FACTORY SPECS.
    TEST FIRED OK.

    The ramp looks much better now. The lip/ridge in the center is gone and the ramp is centered properly. I can't see any other changes and don't think the mags were changed.

    I took it out tonight and put 200 rounds of two types of ammo through it with no problems. It shot great. Hopefully I won't have any more problems.

    I'm glad that they paid the shipping both ways and were able to turn it around quickly. 1 week from pick-up to return.

    Cass
     
  13. Backfire

    Backfire

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    Cass, thanks for the feedback from Glock. It's great that your 30 is functioning fine now, but Glock's response is a bit puzzling to me. You stated that the rounds were being caught against the upper edge of the chamber. In my own experience, a feed-ramp problem usually results in the rounds jamming against the feed-ramp or the lower edge of the feed-ramp. I don't understand the mechanics of how the modifications Glock made to the feed-ramp now prevent the problem that you originally had. This is even more mysterious in that you had the problem with the 9th or 10th rounds.

    Maybe someone else here can see the relationship?;g
     
  14. WalterGA

    WalterGA Millennium Member

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    I can't think of a worse source of reliable information about Glocks or any other firearms than The Gun Zone. Dean Speir, who runs that website, is not only horribly ignorant about gun matters, but is also a pathological liar.
     
  15. Backfire

    Backfire

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    Walter, thanks for the warning about the "Gun Zone." It did seem strange that Glock would totally screw up the basic physics of a gun design. The answers to most gun functioning problems are usually embarassingly simple, once they are understood.
     
  16. Cass

    Cass

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    I agree, its not entirely clear how the ramp caused the problem and why it was only on the 9th round.

    The ramp did have an odd ridge in one point that could have caused some rounds to nose-up. I'll attach another straight on shot of the ramp before they reworked it. Spring tension would be less at round 9, so the effect could have been different at that point.


    Cass
     
  17. Backfire

    Backfire

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    Well, perhaps the nose of the round "bounced" on that ridge that was on the feed ramp and was reflected upward. On my 21, the rounds barely touch the feed ramp at all, going almost straight into the chamber from the magazine. Perhaps the reduced size of the 30 has a more severe geometry to the relationships between the parts and proper feeding is more dependent on the feed ramp. I have various size .45 caliber 1911's and I know from experience that this is the case with them....Government model-most reliable, Commander size-needs a good polishing/throating for reliability, Officer's size-finicky with some hollowpoints that otherwise feed well in the larger 1911's.

    I have not had the chance to examine the feeding process on a model 30 to see if the rounds routinely impact on the feed ramp before sliding into the chamber.
     
  18. Cass

    Cass

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    You're right. I hand cycled a few rounds through it today, and the rounds don't even touch that part of the ramp. They pretty much go straight into the chamber.

    Don't really know what changed then. After the initial problems, I now have over 300 rounds through it with any problems.

    Cass
     
  19. spetsnaz777

    spetsnaz777 Team 9mmx19

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    NEVER, EVER had a jam with my G-30...
     
  20. Backfire

    Backfire

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    Cass, I manually fed a number of 230 gr. HydraShocks into my Glock Model 21 from a magazine and observed that:

    1. While still in the magazine and held in place by the lips, the rounds could not possibly move upward at all - they were all guided directly towards the chamber mouth;

    2. When I let the slide go forward very slowly, I observed that after moving each round only two millimeters through the magazine's lips, forward toward the chamber, it was already impossible for the rounds to get stuck on the top edge of the chamber because the noses of each of the rounds had already partially entered the chamber. The feed jam you described would be impossible at this point.

    In other words, there was no way I could artificially induce the jam you described by pulling up on the round's nose with tweezers, etc. during the feeding process. Once that slide began to move, even a little bit, the round could not do anything but enter the chamber. Your description of your 30's feeding geometry sounds just like the Model 21's and no doubt accounts for the incredible reliability normally found in both models. It may be that your particlar 30 required several hundred rounds to break in, but I think we still don't understand the exact cause of your original problem. Still scratchin' my head.