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Glock 29 - FTRTB - recoil spring replacement?

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by DHart, May 10, 2007.

  1. DHart

    DHart

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    What is the likely lifespan of the dual-recoil spring set-up in the Glock 29 using the Wolff recoil guide rod? I don't have an exact roundcount, but all of a sudden, my Glock 29 slide is stopping about 1/2" short of battery... ammo is 180 gr. Plated Flat Point ammo pushed to about 1175 fps... pretty warm but not super hot. Pistol has perhaps 750 rounds through it with the Wolff guide rod and dual recoil spring set-up. When I do the recoil spring test (empty pistol pointed upwards, trigger pulled, easing slide toward battery... the slide does NOT close on it's own) so it appears that the recoil spring is weak... is this the likely cause of the FTRTB? How long is this dual-recoil spring set-up in the Glock 29 expected to last using warm to hot loads?
     
  2. G33

    G33 Frisky! CLM Millennium Member

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    I try to change springs during annual inspection.
    See armorer's guide.
    :supergrin:
     

  3. C.Smith

    C.Smith Millennium Member

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    Might make sure there is no buildup in the chamber preventing the round to completely chamber. I have heard of plating getting stuck in there and causing problems. Never personally seen, but worth a look anyway.

    By the way all the problems I had with my G29 came with the wolf spring set up. Went back to stock, and no more problems.

    Corey
     
  4. DHart

    DHart

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    Corey... interestingly, after the FTRTB last night I decided to go back to trying my stock recoil spring setup until I could get some more springs for the Wolff guide. Drove me crazy trying to find it and I never did! So, I guess I'll order up another stock recoil spring set-up... I appreciate the replys.
     
  5. DHart

    DHart

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    I think I determined the problem... probably not the recoil spring, although a stiffer spring might have helped a tad...

    I think the deal is that some of my reloads were previously fired with this KKM barrel and they chambered fine, but some of the cases were fired with my Delta Elite which has a standard (not match) chamber and they are a tad too big to chamber well in the tighter match chamber of my KKM barrel...

    Some of my reloaded cases are not sized down enough to chamber easily in the KKM! I guess I'm going to need to test my reloads in the KKM chamber before shooting them with that barrel to make sure they go well.

    And I need to address the final/crimping station on the Dillon 550 and see if I can get the cases sized back down enough to chamber well.
     
  6. DHart

    DHart

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    Another update... yep... the problem is not the gun at all... I used the KKM chamber to check the sizing of my reloaded ammo and sure enough, many of the reloaded rounds wouldn't even chamber half way (but handloaded virgin cases chambered perfectly)... I readjusted the setting on my Lee Factory Carbide Crimp Die, ran the reloaded handloads through the crimp station again and, voila, now all the rounds drop into the chamber perfectly. My Wolff recoil rod and spring set will continue to reign in my 29. Thanks for your comments, guys.
     
  7. chad10mm

    chad10mm Time to shoot

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    My 29 with wolff rod and spring and KKM barrel only has about 500 rnds through, about half of that DT, and hasn't had any problems yet.
    The only reloads I've shot are Atlanta Arms factory.

    Have you had a chance to check by shooting again yet?
    Since you said it also failed the recoil spring test I'm curious to hear if there's another problem.
     
  8. DHart

    DHart

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    chad... I fired twenty rounds through the 29 tonight (Wolff 19# recoil spring set, KKM Precision barrel)... some pretty warm stuff (175 gr. Silvertips over 8.8 gr. of Power Pistol - est. 1200 fps from the 3.7" G29 barrel) and everything functioned perfectly... although I prefer to drop the charge back to about 8.5 gr. for more enjoyable shooting in the little Glock. In my all-steel, full-size Delta Elite and Razorback this load is a piece of cake, but in the light, little G29 I find it to be less enjoyable to shoot more than a few mags worth of it.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    As for the recoil spring test... I read about this test on GlockFAQ.

    http://www.glockfaq.com/gunsmithing.htm#recoil

    How can I test for a weak recoil spring?
    To check the recoil spring do the following:
    1. Remove magazine
    2. Clear the weapon
    3. Pull the trigger and hold it back
    4. While holding trigger back, tip up the gun so that the muzzle is pointing straight up
    5. Keep holding the trigger back while you pull back the slide and ease it forward SLOWLY. When the gun is almost in battery release your grip on the slide and see if it will close by itself.

    If the recoil spring is weak the slide will fail to lock closed while the muzzle is pointing up. [M23 ROCKS!]


    I tried the test with my 29 with the Wolff setup and also with my unused, original factory recoil spring unit, on my new stock Glock 19, and on a new Glock 21 in a gunshop this afternoon and they all performed the same with the test (slide didn't completely close), so I don't think there is any problem with my recoil spring setup. I only have about 350 rounds on the gun (just checked my shooting log tonight) so I would be surprised if the WOlff springs had gone soft so early.

    I know now that the only issue was the setting on my Lee Crimp die.. I wasn't fully resizing down during my crimp stage on the 550. It's a relief to learn this as I like the Wolff steel recoil spring rod and the non-captured dual spring setup... makes tailoring your springs to your loads really quick and easy. I sure do love this gun just the way it's set-up - the KKM barrel is awesome and gives great full case head support. I think there's a Glock 20 out there somewhere with my name on it as well! :banana:
     
  9. chad10mm

    chad10mm Time to shoot

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    That's good to know, thanks for the report.

    I've got 2 spring weights with my wolff stuff plus the original rod and spring.

    I'm especially glad that your setup is working out because your descriptions of yours last year influenced how I set mine up.

    I KNOW there's one with mine!!
     
  10. C.Smith

    C.Smith Millennium Member

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    DHart,

    Where are you buying your winchester silvertip bullets? I think you have me swayed to try some.

    Corey
     
  11. DHart

    DHart

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    Corey... I think the 175 gr. Silvertip is a better choice than Gold Dots for self defense IF you want to shoot them at true 10mm velocities, as the STHP was designed to perform perfectly at around 1290 fps. My last batch I bought in bulk from Grafs.

    http://www.grafs.com/fc/product/121159

    Not cheap, but they do perform exceptionally well in live targets at 1200-1300 fps.

    The 180 gr. Gold Dot is an awesome defense bullet as well, but Speer designed it to perform at it's best at lower velocities.... 1025 to 1150 or so... there's no need to push the Gold Dot any faster... all you get is more recoil and slower follow up shots - the Gold Dots perform perfectly at more moderate speeds than the Silvertip. I wouldn't want to shoot the SIlvertip at any less than about 1150 fps.

    In summary, I think these bullets perform their best at the following velocities:

    175 gr. Silvertip at around 1175-1290 fps (better control from the Glock 29 at 1175-1200 fps)
    180 gr. Gold Dot at around 1050-1150 fps

    I don't shoot the lighter weight bullets as I prefer heavy-for-caliber bullets for their greater penetrating ability. You never know when your bullets might have to penetrated upheld hands, wrists, arms, heavy clothing, armor, AND very heavily built/heavily muscled adversaries. Most ex-cons are some pretty stoutly built individuals! This is another excellent reason to NOT push the Gold Dots too fast as they are more likely to overexpand and lose necessary penetration... they will penetrate better and expand in a better controlled fashion when fired closer to .40 cal velocities.
     
  12. C.Smith

    C.Smith Millennium Member

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    We've had this conversation before, I appreciate the link. You made mention that they perform well in live targets. Is this person experience (I'm guessing hunting) or have you read about them? Just curious. I'm always interested in the ballistic end of things.

    Corey
     
  13. Reyn

    Reyn Times Up

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    I agree completely. I think the ST is better than the GD at 10mm velocities.
     
  14. DHart

    DHart

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    Corey... a fellow forum member (also a moderator here) who I have a great deal of respect for (Turbonatr) has extensive experience in shooting and recovering various 10mm bullets from animals and it has been his experience that the 175 gr. SIlvertip outperforms the 180 gr. Gold Dot when both are fired at 10mm velocities. In online conversation with him, I quote:

    From Turbonatr... " "Full-power" or not, the STs real-world terminal performance speaks for itself (see my above link). Mike McNett has already told me if there was enough desire, he would add the Silvertip to DT's ammo line at it's advertised velocity from Winchester, only from a stock Glock 20, not a 5.5" test barrel. After seeing what the ST can do on live animals, I'm all for it...especially after seeing the full-power (Double Tap velocity) Gold Dot loads perform less than stellar moving 100fps faster. This also makes sense as Texas Ammo, who used to load their full-power 10mm with Gold Dots, have since switched to XTPs because they were not happy with the performance of the Gold Dots at maximum velocity.

    The Gold Dot, XTP and Golden Saber may be better than the Silvertip, but only when the GDHP and GSHP are at .40S&W velocity, not 10mm velocity. My experience has been the GDs and GSs perform better on game at lower (.40S&W) velocity, the exception here is the XTP which seems to like 10mm velocity. At 10mm velocity, the Silvertip is the better performer hands down in my experience compared to the GD at the same velocity. However, I prefer the recoil impulse of the ST in a 10mm gun to the GD and GS in a .40S&W gun. In my hands, the ST has less felt recoil in a G20 than a GD or GS in a G23.

    I don't know what you base your opinion on the GD and GS being "better" bullets, but I base mine on how bullets expand and penetrate in live animals. If you like the GD or GS because they are faster (when in Double Tap loading), go for it. Whatever floats your boat. I just think the ST is the better load due to it's better performance on game and being that much more controllable. Being more widely available is another plus. If Mike offered this load at 1290fps from a G20, I'd buy it by the case.

    After recovering many different brands of 10mm ammo from animals, it (Silvertip 175 gr.) is consistently the best performer. Larger overall expanded diameters with ideal penetration over the full-power Gold Dot loads speaks for itself."


    From my own perspective, I believe Speer knows best what velocity to propel their 180 gr. Gold Dot at and they designed it to perform at it's best at 1025 fps... which is the speed they drive it at in their own loading. No doubt it can be pushed somewhat faster without negative results, but I see no point in adding considerable recoil, blast, wear and tear, and longer recovery times (by pushing them to Double Tap velocities) for relatively little (if any) real world gain in terminal performance.
     
  15. C.Smith

    C.Smith Millennium Member

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    DHart,

    Thanks again for the additional great information. You have convinced me enough to go buy some ST and give them a try in my G29.

    Corey
     
  16. DHart

    DHart

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    Corey... I think you're going to like the SIlvertips... and if you haven't tried 180 gr. Hornady XTP's... they're awesome too... at 10mm velocity.

    I like the Silvertips with 8.5 gr. of PowerPistol... gives a good performance with the little G29 and comfortable to shoot... from the 3.7" barrel in the G29 I think the velocity of this load is about 1150 or so. I've used 8.8 gr. for a while, giving about 1200 fps from the 3.7" G29 barrel, but that feels a little too hot for my liking in the G29, though it's more comfortable in my larger/heavier 10's.
     
  17. C.Smith

    C.Smith Millennium Member

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    I have an eight pound jug of Longshot that I'm working through. So far I really like. A lot of guys like the powerpistol as well, someday I may try it.

    I do like the nose profile of the Winchester, looks slick and won't cause any feeding issues.

    Corey
     
  18. DHart

    DHart

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    Corey.. you're right... they feed magnificently! My KKM eagerly gobbles them as long as they're sized right.

    PowerPistol meters wonderfully and offers great power without great pressures... I use it a LOT. It's only drawback (if you view it as a drawback) is that it's flash is BRIGHT! I like N340 a lot too... it's an awesome powder... meters great, good power, close to no flash. A little more expensive, though.
     
  19. C.Smith

    C.Smith Millennium Member

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    Well I'm glad you mentioned the flash with Powerpistol, I don't really want that. I need as little to no flash as possible. Longshot has a little bit with the more lighter bullets, more powder I think is no burning in the short barrel.

    Corey