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Glock 23 tumbling bullets

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by TC Rider, Apr 28, 2003.

  1. TC Rider

    TC Rider

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    I have a two year old Glock 23 that I've probably run about 1,500 rounds through. I mostly use plated ammo that I buy at the gun show from a local remanufacturer. He is a local guy and provides range and service ammo to several local sherrifs departments around here.

    I've recently started doing a bit of competition with others at some of the ranges around here. Mostly action pistol, but also some PPC courses.

    Some of the old timers have remarked that my glock is 'tumbling' the bullets. While most rounds leave a nice round hole, some appear to be tearing through the paper at an angle.

    I had noticed this at the range where I usually practice, but the targets hang from the top there, and I assumed it was because of the breeze blowing the target. At the competitions, the targets are stapled to a cardboard backer.

    The 23 is fairly accurate at 7 yards, but beyond 15 yards out to 25, the accuracy was never much to write home about.

    Now I'm wondering if I need to find another source of ammo, or think about getting a new barrel. I've tried both 180gr and 165gr from the same source with same result.
     
  2. Eagles1181

    Eagles1181 Flying High

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    I would spend a few extra dollars and buy a couple of boxes of factory ammo. See if the problem continues. If it does I think it is our barrel, if the problem dissappears then the ammo is to blame, and you need to either put up with it or find a new source.

    Eagle
     

  3. TC Rider

    TC Rider

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    I'm headed to the range right now for lunch with some assorted jacketed ammo.

    The gun show is this weekend, so I'd like to figure it out before then.
     
  4. Duck of Death

    Duck of Death

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    Round holes in the target are made by wad or semi wad cutter bullets. All other bullers tear the target and might appear to some as tumbled.
     
  5. TC Rider

    TC Rider

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    At lunchtime I went to my very convenient, local outdoor range and set up a target at 25 yards. Most of my practice with my 23 is at 7 yards at a indoor range.

    The bright sunlight helps my tired eyes. I shot supported off of the shooting bench. I fired some of the aforementioned plated rounds in 165 and 180 grains. They were literally all over the map. I loaded up some commercial 180 grain jacketed hollowpoints and got pretty much the same results.

    I'm no neophyte at shooting. I can take my Ruger Blackhawk and shoot 2" groups at 25 yards. In fact, I can shoot 3-4" groups from my little 38 snubbie.

    So what's going on here with my Glock? Is it time for a new barrel? BTW, I do clean my Glock after every outing.
     
  6. Eagles1181

    Eagles1181 Flying High

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    When you break down the gun to clean it look at the rifling in the barrel. You might also try shooting a round into a tank of water (swimming pool comes to mind) and then collect the bullet and see if there are rifling grooves on it. Other way to do that is to find a friend who reloads 40 take a bullet (just lead part) and force it through and see how easy it goes through, also check for rifling marks on this one. I have a friend who is a glock armorer. I will ask him if he know what is going on.

    Eagle
     
  7. TC Rider

    TC Rider

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    Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it. My neighbor has a pool, how much water (feet) does it take to stop a bullet? I don't want to crack his tile.

    The gun show is this weekend, I may just go ahead and get a Stainless barrel, maybe in .357 Sig. I'm guessing if the factory barrel is out of spec, that Glock would replace it. Then I'd have some more choices.
     
  8. Steve Koski

    Steve Koski Got Insurance? Millennium Member

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    I think you're getting way ahead of yourself. Nothing may be wrong, or you may have some crappy reloads. Shoot some 5 round groups off of a rest, 5 reloads then 5 factory, back and forth several times. See what happens.

    Koski
     
  9. Eagles1181

    Eagles1181 Flying High

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    He tride that at lunch. If you got some ideas/tricks please help. I have no experience with this kind of thing. I am just making suggestions on ways to rule the problems he suspects.

    Eagle
     
  10. Eagles1181

    Eagles1181 Flying High

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    I have no clue really. I think I once read that during WWII the frog men used to swim 4ft under because they found that to be a safe depth. If you shoot at an angle into the deep end (8th is probably what he has) you should be fine.

    Side note: If you are in city limits it is probably not legal to shoot, even into a swimming pool.

    Eagle
     
  11. Steve Koski

    Steve Koski Got Insurance? Millennium Member

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    It sounds like nothing is wrong with your Glock, you're just not used to the Glock trigger. Your revolver/Glock experience is fairly common.

    Do some dummy round drills and some dry fire practice. After several nights of that, shoot some rounds, with really slow trigger pulls at about 10 yards, with the front of the gun resting on a sandbag.

    Your groups should be much tighter. They may never equal your revolver groups, especially unsupported. However, most serious Glock shooters can hold quarter sized groups at 7 yards, from a standing two handed position.

    Koski
     
  12. noway

    noway

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    I doubt the gun is messed up.

    Have you tried to let somebody else shoot the gun?
     
  13. TC Rider

    TC Rider

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    I have let others shoot it, but not at greater than 7 yards. The opportunity hasn't presented itself lately.

    I went back to the range at lunch today and shot my 38 snubbie, just for grins. I got a 4" group at 25 yards off of the bench.

    Tried some other jacketed rounds from the glock and it looked like projectile vomit.

    FWIW, I have no problem making those 2" groups at 7 yards freestanding with the Glock and any ammo
     
  14. Steve Koski

    Steve Koski Got Insurance? Millennium Member

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    So you shoot 2" groups at 7 yards, but 7" groups at 25 yards. Sounds mathematically consistent to me: 2" / 7 x 25 = 7.1"
     
  15. Duck of Death

    Duck of Death

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    *QUOTE*
    I fired some of the aforementioned plated rounds

    A plated bullet is not the same as a jacketed bullet. You may have some lead in the barrel. Shoot half a dozen jacketed bullets to clean out the barrel. Then bench the pistol again with jacketed bullets.
    Good luck.
     
  16. isp2605

    isp2605

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    NO! You do that and you'll need good luck.
    Clean the lead out. Get yourself a bronze brush, some solvent, and get with the elbow grease. Don't try to shoot it out. If you do have leading you'll no doubt experience high pressure spike shooting jacketed bullet thru it. Every hear of the Glock kB? Seen 3 of them. 2 Glock 22 and 1 Glock 21. All had been shooting lead bullets and kBed when shooting jacketed before cleaning.
     
  17. TC Rider

    TC Rider

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    FWIW, I called Smyrna about the ammo I've been using. The tech said that as long as I couldn't scrape off the plating with a fingernail, it was all right. I tried and couldn't do it. I then tried to scrape it off with my knife, put some gouges and scratchs into a bullet, still no lead.

    He did say it's best to use jacketed ammo and to stay away from all european ammo, specifically Wolf.

    Heading to the gunshow tomorrow and will probably buy a .357 sig barrel.

    The tech did say I could send my 23 in and get it checked, no problem.
     
  18. Duck of Death

    Duck of Death

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    *QUOTE*
    NO! You do that and you'll need good luck.

    I've done that for years with barrels that have conventional rifling.
    I can't see why polygonal barrels would be different. Do you post from experience or heresay.

    Shooting the lead out of a barrel is an old old trick that seems to be lost to the younger generation.
     
  19. TC Rider

    TC Rider

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    Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions.

    I think I've solved my problem. I traded my 23 for a model 34 today.

    If I can't get a decent group at 25 yards now, I'll have to think about that Lasik surgery.

    Tomorrow I go back to the range.

    (Does this mean I'll be expelled from the .40 club?)
     
  20. TC Rider

    TC Rider

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    Took my new Glock 34 to the range today.

    3" groups from 25 yards. Case Closed. Not missing my 23 at all.

    (BTW, ammo from same supplier)