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Glock 22 Failure to Extract

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by emobley, Jan 13, 2007.

  1. emobley

    emobley

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    All,

    I have a Glock model 22 that I purchased new in 1995 that functioned for 2,000 plus rounds without an issue. However, over the past six months, I have experienced a failure to extract every 50 - 100 rounds with different brands of factory ammo and different factory magazines. I mainly use Winchester USA ammo in both 165 and 180 grain bullets.

    The casing will stay in the chamber with a fresh round jammed up behind it or the casing will be half way out of the chamber with a fresh round jammed underneath and against the feed ramp.

    Recently I contacted the Glockmeister and upgraded the extractor and ejector. I also got a new recoil spring. After 40 shots I got another failure to extract.

    I'm not sure what to do next. Perhaps I should replace the extractor spring and plunger as well? I just hate to throw parts at this gun not knowing if the problem will be fixed. Is there anything else I should consider?

    Are there inherent problems with a model 22 of this vintage whereby I should go out and purchase a new one with all the improvements?

    Any help would be appreciated.


    Thanks,

    Ed
     
  2. Glock-N-Fun

    Glock-N-Fun

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    You mentioned upgrading the extractor,if it is the LCI extractor,makes sure your useing an LCI bearing(the plastic plug that fastens to the end of the extractor spring)The LCI bearing has a lower profile,and install a new spring.
    Also scrub out the chamber with a chamber brush,or standard brush,and check the new extractor for breakage or chips.Sounds like you might just have a case sticking/hangingup problem in the chamber.
     

  3. emobley

    emobley

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    By LCI I assume you mean Loaded Cartridge Indicator? It is not one of those.

    I'm the type of person who cleans his gun after every shot. To that end, I use a bronze brush and pay particular attention to the chamber.

    When I cycle the gun by hand with live ammo (observing all saftey practices, etc.) I notice that the rim of the cartridge being extracted tends to snag on the fresh cartridge in the magazine. Is that normal to some extent?

    Thanks,

    Ed
     
  4. emobley

    emobley

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    This is frustrating.....I cycled some rounds through my gun today and there is no snagging that I described above. However, it did it last night. Why would this happen on an intermitting basis.

    Ed
     
  5. emobley

    emobley

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    OK...now I know how to reproduce it. Put an empty case in the chamber with the slide closed. Insert a magazine with a live round and cycle the slide. The extracted case will snag on the live round more than half the time and with different magazines.

    Is this normal?

    Ed
     
  6. PP914

    PP914

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    Are you using "overpowered or underpowered" ammo?
    If the expended cartidge is truely snagging on the fresh round, make sure your magazine feed lips are staright and parallel. Sometimes the feed lips spread and the nose of the loaded ammo will raise out of the front of the mag. It's a slim chance that this is the cause though. I don't think this would have anything to do with the ejector becuase, if you're describing this right, the issue is occuring before the spent case contacts the ejector.
    I tend to believe that it's either a damaged or incorrect extractor or extractor depressor pulger/spring/bearing. (make sure the metal end of the depressor is agaist the extractor, then the spring, then the spring loaded bearing; which should be white on a G22 w/ the LCI extractor).
    See this animation and see if you can narrow down where during the cycle this is happening: http://www.sniperworld.com/glock/
    Check the "Split" boxes for a more detailed orientation of the internals.
     
  7. emobley

    emobley

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    That is a very informative site.

    I'm using Winchester USA ammo. I don't know if that is considered over powered or under powered. But I had a failure to extract with CCI blazer ammo.

    The extractor is new (got it from Glockmeister) but it's the same problem I had with the old extractor.

    I inspected the chamber closely and there are no burs.

    The problem occurs with the original magazines and some new ones that I purchased (to determine if the magazine was the cause).


    Thanks,

    Ed
     
  8. PP914

    PP914

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    Did you miss this?
     
  9. emobley

    emobley

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    No, because the replacement extractor was not an LCI extractor. Is an LCI extractor even available for a gun with a 90 degree breech face such as mine?

    Thanks

    Ed
     
  10. killnbucks

    killnbucks

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    You can use either angle extractor on most glocks. Although the 90 degree (older) style extractor is not as asteticaly pleasing to the eye, it will function properly... The actual extractor is probably not the issue.

    Most likely, you have a worn or broken extractor spring that is not putting enough tension on the extractor itself. OR you disassembled your slide and put it in backwards during reassembly. You should try checking and/ or replacing that first since it's the cheapest and most likely issue.

    Remember that during reassembly you put metal to metal and plastic to plastic!!!
     
  11. emobley

    emobley

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    I'll try a new spring and see what that does for the extractor tension. When I slide a cartridge under the extractor, I feel tension although I'm not sure how much is enough. I'll just have to feel what a new spring does for me.

    Is the .40 cal (being a high pressure cartridge) more prone to extraction problems? Perhaps it sticks to the chamber walls more than say a .45 cal or 9mm?

    Ed
     
  12. killnbucks

    killnbucks

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    I think that the pressure of any Glock cartrige was taken into consideration during the engineering process and so pressure has little to do with it.

    There are two springs involved when messing with extractors. 1)the spring under the small circular firing pin block & 2)the small spring that is on the ejector rod (the smaller of the two pins inside the slide). If either of these springs is worn or broken, you will get failures to function. The only other problem I can think of is that maybe you installed the ejector rod backwards (this is a very common mistake). You should always remember metal to metal and plastic to plastic when reassembling almost all glock parts.

    Once you reassemble your slide, you should press the small curcular firing pin block and shake it. You should be able to hear the firing pin rattle. Then pull the firing pin back until it locks into the ready possition, and it won't rattle.
     
  13. emobley

    emobley

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    I found this on another site. Although they are talking about another make, it could be applicable to the Glock:(http://www.home.earthlink.net/~gnappi/10mmtips.htm)

    In an aging gun with weak extractor springs, higher pressure rounds can and do cause this problem. Longer barreled guns like the 1006 will be worse than shorter barrels than a 1076... This is fact... After probably hundreds of thousands of rounds through S&W's of the same caliber(s) like .40's, .45's and 10's with shorter and longer barrels I have documented this phenomena dozens and dozens of times.

    My "Suspicion" is: the pressure curve in the shorter barreled guns is faster by enough in some loads to be released just a bit faster than the long barreled guns. The curve stays higher for longer in longer barrels, and a failure to extract occurs.
     
  14. PP914

    PP914

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    When you are cycling the slide to reproduce the malfunction, are you running the slide back as hard a possible and letting it go on its own? (IE: Run it hard, duplicating normal cycling.)

    And again, what kind of shape are the mags/mag lips/followers in?
     
  15. emobley

    emobley

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    Hi,

    The magazines range from two brand new factory mags and the two magazines that originally came with the pistol. The magazines have no visible defect.

    I shot the gun again today and had two failures to extract in 50 rounds. In the first jam, the case was pulled about 1/3 of the way out with a fresh cartridge jammed against the feed ramp. The second time, the case was pulled about 2/3 of the way out. I was using Winchester white box ammo.

    We've been together since 1995. Until recently she never missed a beat, but I no longer trust her. I don't have the time to mess around with this - she's going to be sold.
     
  16. killnbucks

    killnbucks

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    An empty case is expanded to a larger size than a loaded round. Therefore, the empty case will drag against the barrle making it easier to get a failure to function with a weak ejector/extractor spring.

    Considering the age and number of round fired through your gun, my oppinion is that you have a worn ejector/extractor spring. The part is cheap and easy to replace. I would spend the $5.00 and replace the spring which will almost certainly solve your problem. You may want to consider buying a complete spring replacement kit for your gun to eliminate any other possible tension related problems ($15-$20).
     
  17. ColoradoGlocker

    ColoradoGlocker Former Member

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  18. emobley

    emobley

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    Yes...took apart the slide cleaned everything. I'll try the springs and see what happens.

    Thanks,

    Ed
     
  19. PP914

    PP914

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    And if you still refuse to trust the pistol, let me know. I wanna buy it.
     
  20. emobley

    emobley

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    I ordered a new extractor spring today from Glockmeister to see what happens. Meanwhile, I called up Glock regarding my problem and I could not believe how helpful they were. I wished I had called them in the first place before I ordered any parts.

    It took me all of 30 seconds to get to a live person. I explained my problem and told him about the parts that I had changed. He said that if the new spring does not solve my problem, I can ship my gun to Glock to his attention. He'll test my gun and try to reproduce the problem and send it back for free.

    What great service. Knowing that I will be sending my gun back to a specific person at Glock is a big bonus. That way I know my gun will not get lost in the fray.

    An interesting note: He said they shoot CCI blazer ammo to test their guns. He also said that the first and second generation guns were very popular amongst the armorers at Glock for their personal carry weapons. That's interesting as I'm sure they could get any gun they wanted. I feel better about my 2nd gen Glocks (model 19 and 22). Now if I can get my 22 straightened out.

    Regards,

    Ed