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Glock 21...What classes CAN IT NOT BE USED IN

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by SnafuA96, Jun 11, 2002.

  1. SnafuA96

    SnafuA96

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    Okay, I have acquire 3 Glocks this week for a heck of a price! A 21, 22 & 36. The understanding with the wife is I will sell any of the two, or one and my Kel-Tec as to not tie up to much of the "play" money for summer.

    I want to keep the two that are the most practical for competition shooting class wise. I have searched past posts for three days to gather as much info as possible as to not cause reduntant posting, so I hope this is somewhat fresh.

    From the IDPA website:

    Now the G21 IS NOT LISTED in the ESP list of guns, but the above says ANY PISTOL approved for SSP can be used in ESP. Is this correct? This rule is from May 2001 so I want to be sure. So I could then use the G21 in 3 classes, where as the G22 only in 2. Then I need a 4" bbl revolver ;P

    With regards to other sanctioning bodies, is the G21 and/or G36 viable firearms to enjoy and use box stock with off the shelf ammo? I don't want to have to worry about special handloads to go and shoot competition. I want to do this for fun when I have free weekends, meaning I want to be able to stop by the Gun Shop at the end of my street (why did I buy a house with a gun shop on the corner of the block ;L ) and pick up what I need if I decide to do a shoot.

    If I find this stuff fun & exciting the local Gun Shop will set me up with a G34 and all the goodies to be competitive (minus the practice) since they compete themselves. Spent to much time and $$$ there again today ;f
     
  2. Custom Glock Racing

    Custom Glock Racing I did it first. Millennium Member

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    Your can use your 21 for all IDPA, USPSA and IPSC Divisions except Revo. It is legal for all GSSF except Subcompact and Major Sub. Its not legal for Cowboy, Hipower or Single stack matches.

    matt
     

  3. ipscshooter

    ipscshooter Mostly IDPA now

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    SnafuA96-

    See you did it. Congratulations. See if you can get your wife to agree to selling the Kel-Tec and keeping them all, because you WILL want the G36 someday.;f

    The two that are most practical for competitive shooting are the 21 & 22. It's really a rules thing and I understand your confusion. I will try my best and if I'm in error, someone will jump in.

    For IDPA you can shoot the 22 in SSP and ESP. The 21 you can shoot in SSP and CDP.

    The IDPA rule book gets more confusing every time I read it. Yuck!!

    Here's my interpretation, FWIW.

    Other than the obvious revolver category, the two main differences are caliber and trigger action. Forget about all the acceptable mods for now.

    SSP is any double action, safe action or DAO in 9mm or larger.
    ESP is single action or selective SA/DA in 9mm up to 400 Cor-Bon.
    CDP is reserved for 45 ACP only.

    I have no idea why the rule book says you can use Glocks in ESP when is specifically states they MUST BE single action or selective SA/DA. Maybe my interpretation is wrong or it could be that the book/website is in error. It has been rumoured that the rule book is less than perfect.

    The scoop in competition is Glocks, HK's and Beretta's are big in SSP. 1911's and Hi Powers are big in ESP and 1911's, STI's, SV's are big in CDP. If you are good a G21 can be competitive in CDP, but you can only load 8 rounds.

    As for USPSA you can shoot the 21 or 22 in Production, Limited or Limited 10. Add a ported barrel and you can shoot Open Class with either.

    The G36 is a GREAT carry gun. As for competition the only class that you could be competitive in is Back Up Gun class in IDPA. This is due to mag capacity, not the basic gun.

    A competition tip.....the people who win usually use the smallest caliber at the lowest power factor allowable for that class. That's not to say that among your particular group of shooters you couldn't win with bigger and more powerful, but you gotta be that much better. If it's just for fun and comes down to one, pick what fits you best.
     
  4. ipscshooter

    ipscshooter Mostly IDPA now

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    Matt's right that you CAN use the G21 in all USPSA. I included the ported barrel for Open as a competitive thing. If we went all the way you could add a dot and a bunch of other stuff. He is right though. I shot an STI in Open BEFORE they were aproved for Limited. Slow, but got it done.

    I still don't get the ESP deal with Glocks. Especially, the 45. The rule book and site wrong or does my interpretaion bite? I defer to the man.
     
  5. SnafuA96

    SnafuA96

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    Thanks Guys! I was hoping you 2 would respond, as well as some others I have learned from in a short time ;)

    Looks like I'll keep the 21 & 36 for now. If I find it fun, I'll work another 7 day week and buy the 34 to actually be competitive in SSP and ESP, then use the 21 in CDP for fun and the 36 or the Kel-Tec in back up (shhhh, don't tell ;N , I'll figure it out. I hate selling guns once I have them).

    The 22 I picked up has some miles on it and I can make a profit on it to cover the other two, so it has to go for now. It did come ready to go though. 5 mags, Fobus holster, 3 dual mag pouches and ammo. If it didn't look and fell so ratty to me I'd probably try to keep it and dump the 36 for a 27 (which the shop up the street has in stock for $514 ;1 )

    As for what fits best, the 21. I can't put either of them down ;f and bought snap caps today to keep trying the triggers. I don't care for the trigger on the 22, or the thinner grip. I wonder if it has been molested? VVEERRRYYYY LLLOOONNNGGG pull compared to the 21 & 36?

    Thanks again! I'm sort of glad my old hangout (www.mcrgo.org) was down for a while. I have learned a lot here and am now a Glock fan! The 21 came with a NIB hat, stickers, Glock magazines (paper kind) , 13rd mags and ammo ;c
     
  6. ipscshooter

    ipscshooter Mostly IDPA now

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    Ron--

    Glad to be of help. The rules can be confusing as you can see. In IDPA's defense, they aren't as many years into competition as USPSA, so the rule book probably needs work. Most of the guys who shoot IDPA where I go are there for the fun. Nice to be near the top, but it's not too important. No prizes or trohpies at club level. The best you can hope for is to get your name on a web site.

    Sounds like you made a good choice. The 22 seems to have been used a bit and may have been "molested". ;) That trigger sounds funky. I've got more than a few Glocks and the triggers are all pretty much the same, except the modified ones.

    Enjoy your new hardware.
     
  7. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson

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    The IDPA rule is clear, for a change. You may shoot any SSP gun in either ESP or CDP ---- DEPENDING UPON CALIBER. Your G21 would compete in either SSP because it is a Safe Action or in CDP because it is a .45; your G22 would compete in either SSP because it is a Safe Action or in ESP because it is NOT a .45.

    There is nothing you can enter in all three autoloader categories, except by a barrel change from .45 to something smaller.
     
  8. ipscshooter

    ipscshooter Mostly IDPA now

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    I agree that the G21 can only be shot in SSP or CDP.

    How do you resolve this statement "Hanguns permitted for ENHANCED SERVICE PISTOL division must be SINGLE ACTION or SELECTIVE SA/DA and......"? If they intended to include "safe action" why isn't it mentioned, as it is for SSP? Rule book/web site in error? Or do we just accept the fact that the FAQ that says "You may shoot any SSP gun in either ESP or CDP ---- DEPENDING UPON CALIBER." is the BOD's interpretation of the rules and ignore what ever else is in the book. I'm not intending to be a range lawyer or argumentative. Just looking for clarification. I may want to shoot my G17 in ESP as well as SSP one day.
     
  9. Southern Yankee

    Southern Yankee Glockaholic

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    Because in the list of approved pistols(in which Glock's less than .45 cal are named) it has a note that states: Pistols approved for SSP may be used in either ESP or CDP depending upon caliber.

    If you make any changes to the shape of the frame or grip,(I've rounded the bottom of my trigger guard so I can get a more comfortable and higher grip)added a magwell,(so long as it still fits in the box) or changed the guiderod to anything other than plastic(but it can't be heavier than common steel) then you are required to shoot it in ESP. (Which is where me and my 34 play) ;f
    Hope this helps clarify things for ya.
     
  10. ipscshooter

    ipscshooter Mostly IDPA now

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    Thanks for pointing that sentence out. As many times as I've read the rules, I have menaged to skip over that. Kinda like the samll print at the bottom of a car add.

    I guess the theory is, that shooting double action or safe action in ESP is a "perceived" disadvantage so if you want to, go ahead.

    I hope they calrify that in the next edition.

    Thanks for the help...makes sense now....kinda
     
  11. ipscshooter

    ipscshooter Mostly IDPA now

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    WOW.... what spelling.....should have reviewed that. Hey, it's late.
     
  12. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson

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    Lots of things I wish they would clarify, but the practice everywhere I have shot has been to let Glocks shoot in ESP or CDP at the shooter's request. So the FAQ interpretation trumps the basic definition.

    I have never seen a good Glocker at much of a disadvantage anyhow. This is sometimes embarassing to us 1911 shooters with 3 lb crisp triggers.
     
  13. ipscshooter

    ipscshooter Mostly IDPA now

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    Certainly not much of a disadvantage with a Glock. I know a guy who, about 5 years ago, went from USPSA Lmited "D" class to "A" in under a year with a G22. He practiced a lot at the range and dry fired stages he set up in his basement. It's mostly the guy behind the trigger.