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Discussion in 'Glock Collector's Club' started by patcrad, Jun 9, 2020.
No law letter? No demo letter?
What does that even mean?
As per ATF § 479.105 (f), a MANUFACTURER or IMPORTER FFL with a valid and corresponding SOT may take possession of the machine gun without the need for a law enforcement demonstration letter. NFA Type 03 Dealers require a demonstration letter.
Is that SOT something a normal citezen can get?
Just takes money an the AFT approved license.
Unfortunately a citizen can’t own it, only a LE department or a FFL with a SOT
Get your SOT. Buy fun toys an open a range. Rent your SOT toys, Vegas baby.
It stands for SPECIAL OCCUPATIONAL TAXPAYER....
Basically, a SOT is a licensed dealer and manufacturer of NFA regulated firearms, as a business.
This I just don't get.
I could see a Pre-86 DS bringing moon money. A post sample??? I know an SOT right near me that has at least two. These are currently produced $550ish guns. No idea why a post sample brings this.
Supply vs demand. Unfortunately Glock won’t sell these to dealers with the proper FFL/SOT/law letter, most of the 18s have come out of departments then get bought by dealers.
That's because this one does not require a demo letter. Usually if an SOT/FFL wants to purchase a post 1986 MG, they need to provide a letter from a law enforcement agency stating that they are seeking a particular firearm for demonstration,
My SOT sold a post 18C no law letter pistol on Gunbroker in 2017. The final price was just short of $9k. An 18 by the same SOT sold for $5,525 at the same time.
I've known at least 2 SOTs around here w them who had little trouble getting them w a law letter. Were not too expensive. That said, since I gave up my SOT I've not followed post samples.
I’m in the process of getting my Type 07 manufacture license and SOT....
Part of the issue for the “law letter” vs “no law letter” is ATF is cracking down on people buying up stuff to have a large machine gun collection of dealer samples. Someone in Podunk USA gets the local chief to sign off saying they want a “demo” of something so the dealer can get it. Sounds good on paper if it’s an M16, MP5, or UMP......but when it’s an M60, M240, or an M134 mini gun.....well the ATF is now going WTF?! ATF was (not sure if they still are) requiring a proof of intent to purchase for demos now thanks to this common practice. So when a Post Sample Gun states letter or no letter that does play on the price. Basically makes the gun more of a premium for those who can’t get demo letters...
Another reason that real G18’s are going for stupid money on the dealer market is that they aren’t out there anymore. Glock is direct with them, same as HK for new MP5’s and so on. So whatever is out there in the LEO/SOT world as far as G18’s....that’s it and there ain’t no more.
HGP: June/July ish 2005 production date.
Sold for $11,225
I gave up my SOT in 2002. So, I've not paid much attn to pre samples. Back then there was no shortage of post 18s. I knew numerous SOTs with them. Must have been easier then. Don't know.
I think that some depts get convinced to purchase them as toys. Some of these guns end up with SOTs as post samples.
I honestly don't understand paying big $ for any post being that it has to go when your SOT goes.
I've heard rumors of a few Pre sample G1 18s. When I was an SOT I was not aware of these. Had I been I would have searched absolutely everywhere for one. I'm a huge fan of factory original (not conversion) guns. Thus, some of my pre sample guns (MP5s, USSS Package UZI, etc) are my very favorites in my collection.
There are tons of MP5 post samples but they're a far more popular gun of course.
One thing I was thinking about was the spare parts issue for an 18. I doubt that Glock would service a post sample but don't know that for sure.
I've been to the G18 Operator School and have fired my SOT friend's guns many times. Love them. They are such an incredible testament to the quality of Glocks. The ones at the school have been fired hundreds of thousands of times. Yet, they bang our 33 rd burst after burst no prob. Incredible guns.
One thing that I'd think would keep the price down - though it obviously does not - is that they are difficult guns to shoot well and control for folks who are not well trained in shooting select fire weapons. Glock used to bring one every year to TAC OPS East before that event was stopped (sucks, was awesome). The G18 demo never lasted long as person after person (all sworn LE or MIL) put rounds in the ceiling after just the first few rounds on full auto mode.
One of my buddies in Europe just purchased a new 18 and 18C no prob. W/VAT etc they're not much over a grand in USD. If only.
Funny that you mention belt feds. I was an Adjunct Instructor at HK ITD later HK D in the early 2000s. I took the MP5 Operator and Instructor Schools with some guys from the Johnson Space Center. They had HK21s in their helos. Some depts do have them!
I posted a thread a while back with many detail pics from the G18 school with the unique parts, manual, etc.
Some have seen this video before but, just to show how much fun these are and how reliable here is a video of me at the G18 Operator School doing a full mag dump....