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Gen4 RSA cutting coils for light loads

2450 Views 18 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  Lindenwood
Hi,
I have a Lone Wolff RSA for Gen4 g34. I would like to cut coils to tune the spring rate for light target loads. I think the larger outer spring is the primary spring and I will cut coils from this spring. I plan to leave the inner spring alone. Any comments would be helpful.

Thanks,
Ross
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Why not buy an RSA adapter so you can use a Gen3 type rod with replaceable alternate weight springs?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Why not buy an RSA adapter so you can use a Gen3 type rod with replaceable alternate weight springs?
Thanks for the reply,
I have a couple of rods and adapters for Gen 4, right now I'm using a 12lb spring. I would like to know if a lightly sprung RSA would make the gun track better in recoil. Would like some input before I start cutting coils. I am using light target loads for idpa.
 

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If you use a Wolff Gunsprings recoil rod with the Gen 3 adapter, you don't need to cut anything, just change the springs.
 

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I have to guess that long term changing springs would be the better choice.
 

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I've never heard even one story of someone cutting turns off of a dual-spring RSA...and those have been in use in some models for 20 years. If it were a useful technique such reports would be many and frequent.
 

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If you go to light with the RSA and use the stock striker spring your Glock may not fully go in to battery.

FWIW, I use a Jager polymer rod, 13 lb ISMI spring, and 5 lb Wolff striker spring in my Gen 4 G34 and light Federal Champion 115's eject great.
 

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T
If you go to light with the RSA and use the stock striker spring your Glock may not fully go in to battery.

FWIW, I use a Jager polymer rod, 13 lb ISMI spring, and 5 lb Wolff striker spring in my Gen 4 G34 and light Federal Champion 115's eject great.
The above is very true.

However, to answer your priginal questions, going with a lighter spring will generally cause the weapon to have less muzzle rise because the recoil spring transfers less of the slide's momentum into your hand during the relatively long period while the slide is in motion. And, because it is not moving as quickly when it returns to battery, you have a correspondingly-smaller "dip" of the muzzle at that point. However, the downside is you end up with a proportionally-sharper recoil impulse at the very end of the slide's travel because the slide is going faster when it knocks against the frame. Fortunately, because this occurs over a very short time period (one instant of contact), the overall affect is less muzzle rise because that energybinstead goes to displacing the tissues of your hands and arms. Of course, I would take that over a heavy spring and higher muzzle rise, especially with mild 9mm loads.

Basically, though, you can go as light as you want--using proportionally-lighter loads to avoid extra wear on the frame--until you run into feeding issues. I have heard of people going as low as 9-10lbs.

FWIW, however, I have gotten a factory Gen3 G26 to reliabel cycle 124gr bullets down to about 800fps, and my Favtory Gen4 G21 to reliably cycle 225gr cast bullets down to about 600fps. So, you might just experiment with how low you can go as-is.

And, of course, all of this falls on a continuum, so don't necessarily expect a night-and-day difference. However, I do believe most would see a noticable dofference going from a stock spring to, say, a 10 or 11lb one.

Also, ideally, one would either add muzzle compensaion or lighten the slide to gain the full benefits of the above principles.

Finally, I can't say whether it would really be a good idea to cut the factory springs vs replacing ones on a Gen3 guide rod.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank you all for the replies. I just got back from the range and would like to share my experience. I tested four guide rods and a couple different recoil springs. The line up was stock RSA, Jager steel guide rod with a 13 lb. spring, stock Lone Wolf Stainless Steel RSA and a Lone Wolff SS RSA with 2 coils cut from the main recoil spring. Cutting coils is common in speed shooting, IPSC and IDPA competitions.

My gun is a Gen4 34.

I am shooting a 165gn bullet, over tite group, to make the minimum power factor for idpa.

Best tracking and quickest back on target was the Lone Wolff RSA with 2 coils cut off. The Jager felt good, and the 13lb spring was the lightest used in this test.The stock RSA felt good, as did the Lone Wolff unmodified RSA, but both these units took longer to settle back on target than the modified Lone Wolff or the Jager. This is a very subjective result, I only fired several hundred rounds for this experiment and the results may not be mirrored in the wild. However, I will continue to use the Lone Wolff RSA with the cut down coils, as it seems to give the best results(fastest to get the sight back on target). Next range trip will test a Lone Wolff RSA with three coils cut off and the Jager with a 12lb spring.

Tested with double taps from .25 to.18 on the timer/ all A zone hits at seven yards.

Hope this was of interest,
-Ross
 

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Well said, and I agree. A heavier spring makes the gun feel mushier and slower, and also gives the perception of the entire gun porpoising. A lighter spring feels sharper in the hand, but stays flatter and quicker shot to shot. With a 9mm level of recoil, I'll gladly make that trade-off.

As a side note, our Gen.4 rods are Gen. 4 specific - not an adapter on a Gen. 3 rod so the base of the guide rod fits the frame properly. A Gen. 3 guide rod swimming in a Gen. 4 frame will function, but does not promote consistent lockup which defeats one of the primary the purposes of a full length guide rod.

Thanks, jager





T

The above is very true.

However, to answer your priginal questions, going with a lighter spring will generally cause the weapon to have less muzzle rise because the recoil spring transfers less of the slide's momentum into your hand during the relatively long period while the slide is in motion. And, because it is not moving as quickly when it returns to battery, you have a correspondingly-smaller "dip" of the muzzle at that point. However, the downside is you end up with a proportionally-sharper recoil impulse at the very end of the slide's travel because the slide is going faster when it knocks against the frame. Fortunately, because this occurs over a very short time period (one instant of contact), the overall affect is less muzzle rise because that energybinstead goes to displacing the tissues of your hands and arms. Of course, I would take that over a heavy spring and higher muzzle rise, especially with mild 9mm loads.

Basically, though, you can go as light as you want--using proportionally-lighter loads to avoid extra wear on the frame--until you run into feeding issues. I have heard of people going as low as 9-10lbs.

FWIW, however, I have gotten a factory Gen3 G26 to reliabel cycle 124gr bullets down to about 800fps, and my Favtory Gen4 G21 to reliably cycle 225gr cast bullets down to about 600fps. So, you might just experiment with how low you can go as-is.

And, of course, all of this falls on a continuum, so don't necessarily expect a night-and-day difference. However, I do believe most would see a noticable dofference going from a stock spring to, say, a 10 or 11lb one.

Also, ideally, one would either add muzzle compensaion or lighten the slide to gain the full benefits of the above principles.

Finally, I can't say whether it would really be a good idea to cut the factory springs vs replacing ones on a Gen3 guide rod.
 

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[QUOTE="Lindenwood, post: 22301849,

FWIW, however, I have gotten a factory Gen3 G26 to reliabel cycle 124gr bullets down to about 800fps, and my Favtory Gen4 G21 to reliably cycle 225gr cast bullets down to about 600fps.

How did you get the 26 to cycle the light target loads. I am aware of 14 pound springs, apparently you altered them as well?
 

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165 grain bullet in a 9mm, did not know it was available?
Thank you all for the replies. I just got back from the range and would like to share my experience. I tested four guide rods and a couple different recoil springs. The line up was stock RSA, Jager steel guide rod with a 13 lb. spring, stock Lone Wolf Stainless Steel RSA and a Lone Wolff SS RSA with 2 coils cut from the main recoil spring. Cutting coils is common in speed shooting, IPSC and IDPA competitions.

My gun is a Gen4 34.

I am shooting a 165gn bullet, over tite group, to make the minimum power factor for idpa.

Best tracking and quickest back on target was the Lone Wolff RSA with 2 coils cut off. The Jager felt good, and the 13lb spring was the lightest used in this test.The stock RSA felt good, as did the Lone Wolff unmodified RSA, but both these units took longer to settle back on target than the modified Lone Wolff or the Jager. This is a very subjective result, I only fired several hundred rounds for this experiment and the results may not be mirrored in the wild. However, I will continue to use the Lone Wolff RSA with the cut down coils, as it seems to give the best results(fastest to get the sight back on target). Next range trip will test a Lone Wolff RSA with three coils cut off and the Jager with a 12lb spring.

Tested with double taps from .25 to.18 on the timer/ all A zone hits at seven yards.

Hope this was of interest,
-Ross[/QUOTE
 

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Thank you all for the replies. I just got back from the range and would like to share my experience. I tested four guide rods and a couple different recoil springs. The line up was stock RSA, Jager steel guide rod with a 13 lb. spring, stock Lone Wolf Stainless Steel RSA and a Lone Wolff SS RSA with 2 coils cut from the main recoil spring. Cutting coils is common in speed shooting, IPSC and IDPA competitions.

My gun is a Gen4 34.

I am shooting a 165gn bullet, over tite group, to make the minimum power factor for idpa.

Best tracking and quickest back on target was the Lone Wolff RSA with 2 coils cut off. The Jager felt good, and the 13lb spring was the lightest used in this test.The stock RSA felt good, as did the Lone Wolff unmodified RSA, but both these units took longer to settle back on target than the modified Lone Wolff or the Jager. This is a very subjective result, I only fired several hundred rounds for this experiment and the results may not be mirrored in the wild. However, I will continue to use the Lone Wolff RSA with the cut down coils, as it seems to give the best results(fastest to get the sight back on target). Next range trip will test a Lone Wolff RSA with three coils cut off and the Jager with a 12lb spring.

Tested with double taps from .25 to.18 on the timer/ all A zone hits at seven yards.

Hope this was of interest,
-Ross
I'm curious if the weight of the LW SS Recoil Spring Assy would also have to be factored in. While the lighter springs allow better tracking, the weight of the assembly would at least on the surface appear to help control muzzle flip. I too have tried the LW set up but encountered problems with the slide overriding the end of the assembly in a G21 gen 4. This was noticed upon being disassembled and it sticking in the end of the slide. Some of the heavier Gen 4 recoil springs use a flange to prevent this. I've noticed that LW does not.
 

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[QUOTE="Lindenwood, post: 22301849]

FWIW, however, I have gotten a factory Gen3 G26 to reliabel cycle 124gr bullets down to about 800fps, and my Favtory Gen4 G21 to reliably cycle 225gr cast bullets down to about 600fps.
How did you get the 26 to cycle the light target loads. I am aware of 14 pound springs, apparently you altered them as well?[/QUOTE]

Nope! By factory, I really meant factory heh. I like to experiment though. I think the lower limit of reliable functioning was somewhere around 3.3gr of Unique. Down around 3.0gr I would get one malfunction every couple of mags.

And for all I know it could have been slower. If I still had a 9mm Glock I would be happy to try, since I still have all the components to load for one and now own and regularly shoot through a chronograph.
 

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How did you get the 26 to cycle the light target loads. I am aware of 14 pound springs, apparently you altered them as well?
Nope! By factory, I really meant factory heh. I like to experiment though. I think the lower limit of reliable functioning was somewhere around 3.3gr of Unique. Down around 3.0gr I would get one malfunction every couple of mags.

And for all I know it could have been slower. If I still had a 9mm Glock I would be happy to try, since I still have all the components to load for one and now own and regularly shoot through a chronograph.[/QUOTE]
I have three 26's have two dillon 650's and with stock Rsa's I have to load at one tenth over max to get 100% function on 400 rounds, unless I replace with a 14# spring. I am near 1200 FPS on 115 grain haps.
 

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Before I take that as a slight, what is "gun golfing?"


And yeah, not sure what might be causing your reliability issues. My Glocks, except my 42, have been extremely tolerant of light target loads.
 
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