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Gen4 G19 experiment -- Lone Wolf extractor

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by skyboss_4evr, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. tahco gunworks

    tahco gunworks

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    I just got a Gen 4 G19, and it works flawlessly.

    That is weird why you have these problems. The brass throws to the right about 2 to 3 feet. Have you tried other loads perhaps?
     
  2. voyager4520

    voyager4520 -----

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    Well I noticed yesterday when detail strip cleaning my G27 slide that the extractor depressor plunger channel in the slide has equidistant gaps where the channel changes diameter, it looks like it was cut with dull tooling as does the firing pin channel. If you look at the pictures SGT Duffman posted in his latest post on that thread over at thehighroad.org, he shows pictures comparing the extractor depressor plunger of his Gen4 G19 to that of his G21. The EDP from his 19 has abnormal wear on the larger part that contacts the extractor, but the wear is around the outside. The EDP from my G27 has the same wear. The EDP from my G23 looks fine, and the EDP channel and firing pin channel are smooth in my G23 slide.

    On a side note, when looking at my firing pin safety it had some abnormal wear on it as well. I looked at the LWD extractor and the raised number on the extractor appears to be rubbing against the firing pin safety. The very bottom of the number is wearing down. LWD shouldn't have put the number on their extractors in that spot.
     

  3. deadlyfoo001

    deadlyfoo001

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    (I have a new gen 3 with problems)

    Here is my new hypothesis:

    Friction is preventing the slide from gliding easily (possibly due to glock's new finish which is slightly rougher). The stock spring can't completely cycle the slide with enough force to eject the spent shell consistently. A lighter spring will allow it to cycle completely therefore ejecting the round in a consistent manner.

    Test:

    Purchase a new guide rod with a lighter spring tension

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

    Results: Will update when I receive it in the mail.

    If you think my hypothesis is reasonable, i'll order it. I just don't want to spend money on something that won't work, so give me some feedback. And by the way, I am by no means a gun expert.

    RobG had success with the lighter recoil spring.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2011
  4. JBarbaresi

    JBarbaresi

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    i believe that your hypothesis holds some weight based off RobG's success, but I don't see why the recoil spring (an unchanged part in gen3s) would suddenly be causing erratic ejections unless there was something else coming into play also. are you thinking the new finish in the slide rail grooves is slowing the action of the slide just enough to throw off the ejection pattern? it may be a combination of the recoil spring and extractor, and the lighter spring is compensating for the extractor deficiency, or vice versa in the case for those who had success with the LWD extractor. who knows.

    if you've got the $20 to spend go for it, you probably won't have any trouble getting most of your money back on the recoil spring and LWD extractor if need be.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2011
  5. JBarbaresi

    JBarbaresi

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    i'm going to take another look inside my slide tonight with a flashlight and piece of paper against the breech face like you suggested.
     
  6. NCTrailX

    NCTrailX

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    New to Glock Talk - great info here. Was planning to pick up a G19 so I've been lurking in the background doing my research to see if the problems are big enough to force me to look elsewhere.

    This may have been covered elsewhere, but it looks like the friction suggestion has some support. Take a look at the mod that this guy did to the small detent that has been added to the trigger bar on Gen 4 Glocks. Filing it down cut the friction and made his G19 cycle more consistently. Makes sense I guess - ejecting casings relies on timing, so friction could lead to erratic ejection patterns.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/Brandon401401#p/search/0/Mj8Qt8ofCAw
     
  7. deadlyfoo001

    deadlyfoo001

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    I ordered it. I think it will be fine, and hopefully will fix the problem. Just reading around, a lot of competition shooters are using the 15lb or 13lb in their .40, so it should definitely work in the 9mm.
     
  8. RobG

    RobG

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    Hope it works for ya'...I'm at 900 rounds 115gr. and 124gr. ammo with the GM single ss recoil rod captured with 15# weight spring and the pistol has been flawless and it fires very smooth with the lighter spring and my accurracy improved as well.

    On a side note, I was so impressed w/the GM rsa, I ordered a GM single ss 20# rsa for my gen4 g23 that I use 180gr target and SD ammo and it was horrible...alot of muzzle flip and my accuracy was bad. I never had any issues with the stock Glock 0-3 rsa to begin with, but I thought it would be smoother with the 20#...big mistake. lol

    Put the stock rsa back on the g23 and it has continued to be flawless with about 700 rounds through the barrel. The only mods done are a GM extended slide lock and a Glock extended slide stop. Go figure...:dunno:If it ain't broke leave it alone. :supergrin:
     
  9. JBP55

    JBP55

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    I use Jager stainless guide rods with 13# or 15# ISMI springs in my Glocks.
     
  10. JBarbaresi

    JBarbaresi

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    i was surprised when i learned that a lighter recoil spring actually keeps the gun more level and reduces muzzle flip and felt recoil. it seems kind of counter-intuitive but when you read about why this happens, it makes sense. you would probably enjoy your g23 with a 15# spring as well.
     
  11. deadlyfoo001

    deadlyfoo001

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    The new guide rod will be here on friday. I'll try to get out to the range this weekend to report my results.
     
  12. JBarbaresi

    JBarbaresi

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    i look forward to it. i've tried absolutely everything i can possibly think of that would be related to an ejection issue with exception of a lighter spring.
     
  13. jrush2525

    jrush2525

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    I finally got my new spring from Glock today, I only had to wait about 10 weeks....
    The spring is marked 0-4-3, I haven't had any problems with the 0-3 spring but will try it out and see what difference if any it makes.
     
  14. deadlyfoo001

    deadlyfoo001

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    Alright, here is the verdict

    15 lb recoil spring does not help. In fact, it is less reliable. I had problems with the slide returning forward completely. Also, on the last round, the brass barely made it out. It helped ejection a little bit. Ejection was more positive and a lot stronger, however on occasion, the brass would go to the left or straight back.

    I might call glock and complain, make something up to see if I can a new g19. It has been reliable, but when paying 500 bucks for a handgun, I would like it to be 100% perfect. Glock, in my opinion does not exemplify perfection (as in their logo). If you watch hickok45, (owns practically 5 copies of every glock) I've never seen him get hit with brass flying at his head.

    So I think thats it for this thread. We have for the most part tried just about everything to fix this issue and it still persists.

    If anyone would like my 15lb steel recoil spring and guide rod, send me 5 bucks for shipping over paypal and its yours.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  15. JBarbaresi

    JBarbaresi

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    sorry the recoil spring didn't work for you. actually if you watch any of hickok45's gen4 g19 videos you will notice him constantly getting hit with brass or seeing the occasional ejection to the left. particularly in gen4 g19 chapter 2. also if you watch this video of him shooting an old gen3 g19 you will notice the same thing, just less frequently.

    i've pointed this out on several occasions to the people who like to blame malfunctions and ejection issues on limp wristing or poor stance. no one seems to questions hickok45's ability to shoot a glock, as they shouldn't.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  16. Shasta McNasty

    Shasta McNasty

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    yep. he also had a couple failures to eject with his first gen4 19 vid.
     
  17. voyager4520

    voyager4520 -----

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    Sorry it didn't work out for you. If you watch some of the latest videos he's made, particularly "G19 Three Generations" he does have slightly erratic ejection. An occasional casing will even fly over the left side of the gun, even when he's shooting a Gen3. In fact in that latest video, he has a FTE with CCI Blazer in his Gen3 G19 at about 11:09 into the video. If you watch carefully when he pulls the magazine out, another live round falls out of the magazine well.

    An update to the wear on the extractor depressor plunger, SGT Duffman from thehighroad.org figured out what's causing that wear: http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7491195&postcount=131

    The rounded portion of the extractor, right next to where the EDP pushes against the extractor, is rubbing on the side of the EDP. That sounds like what's happening with my G27. When I have only the extractor and firing pin safety in the slide the extractor swings freely, but when I swing the extractor with the slide fully assembled I feel some sort of interference. When I do the same with my G23 slide, the extractor moves freely both when only the extractor and firing pin safety are installed and when the slide is fully assembled.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
  18. deadlyfoo001

    deadlyfoo001

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    Ok, well my last idea is to polish the tip of the extractor plunger and lightly lube it with clp. Mine was all chewed up like in sgt. duffman's pictures. I also switched back to the glock extractor since my original glock extractor was fine (fell out freely). I would suspect that if this works, I would be able to fire a number of rounds before the erratic ejection problems arise (due to the tip getting "re-chewed")

    Maybe to erratic ejection is due to the extractor not being able to move freely. In some cases, this is because of an out of spec extractor getting "stuck" in the channel, and in other cases because the extractor plunger is stuck not allowing the extractor to move freely.

    For those of you who have tried the LWD extractor and still get brass hitting you in the face, check your extractor plunger and see if you have these wear marks. Mine weren't this bad, but they were there.

    If this happens to be the case, then something is causing the wear to occur. Either an out of speck extractor depressor plunger or pointy edges on the slide where it contacts the tip.

    Maybe consider getting this:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Titanium-Depres...827?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4158ca8603

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2011
  19. JBarbaresi

    JBarbaresi

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    i would personally avoid putting any oil inside the extractor plunger channel. if you do just to test for improvement, make sure you clean it out really good with some alcohol afterwards to clean it and dry it out.

    i think the wear on the EDP tip is caused by the rougher finish of the slide. i may be wrong
     
  20. Aquagear

    Aquagear

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    I have been using fine powdered graphite on both the striker and the extractor. I just put a small amount in on re assembly, it seems to work its into the surfaces well to lubricate and will not attract crud. When I dissembled the guns after a range trip all looked good and a fine film of the graphite had coated all the surfaces. Just my two cents worth.