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Gen4 G19 experiment -- Lone Wolf extractor

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by skyboss_4evr, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. skyboss_4evr

    skyboss_4evr

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    This is going to be a long post, so please bear with me. I recently purchased a Gen4 G19 which came with an 0-4-1 recoil spring assembly. And during my first range outing, out of 300 rounds, I experienced three stovepipes and a significant amount of brass to the face, erratic ejection, especially with 115gr Remington UMC. Rather than send the pistol back to the factory, I decided to troubleshoot it myself.

    I recently took interest in some posts I'd read suggesting that the newer extractors might be the culprit in at least some Gen4 9mm issues. Specifically, member "HotroderX" mentioned Lone Wolf's extractors which promised better fit and finish over the more recent Glock extractors, which some speculate are MIM.

    After speaking with Glock customer service yesterday, he recommended I take some fine steel wool to my Gen4 extractor to smooth out the finish a bit and see if that would improve the fit. I did as he suggested, but during the process, received my Lone Wolf 9mm extractor. While the steel wool DID improve the fit of the Gen4 extractor, I noticed some small, yet OBVIOUS differences between the Lone Wolf version and the Glock version. In fact, the Lone Wolf extractor looked and fit EXACTLY like the extractor in my older Gen3 G19. The Gen4 Glock extractor has the obvious dip that others have mentioned as well as some extra ridges that don't exist on the older Gen3 extractor and the Lone Wolf version.

    So today I went to the range to experiment. Here are my findings...

    1. I fired 400 rounds total. A mixture of 115gr Blazer aluminum case ammo, 115gr Federal American Eagle, 124gr American Eagle and 115gr Remington UMC (which resulted in 3 stovepipes and the highest amount of brass to the face during my range outing last week).

    2. My gun came with the 0-4-1 RSA. I received my 04 spring today from Glockparts. I observed that the plastic on the muzzle end of the guide rod on the 0-4-1 version is beefier than on the 04 version. NO noticeable difference in performance.

    3. The stock extractor performed much better this time. Which is to say I had ZERO stovepipes, FTF's or FTE's. No malfunctions whatsoever. The brass to the face was significantly reduced, but still occured from time to time, which seemed to only occur with the Remington UMC ammo. I cannot say whether it was the steel wool rub down or the break in from last week's range session that helped.

    4. The Lone Wolf extractor performed brilliantly. NO malfunctions at all and NO brass to the face, even with the 115gr Remington UMC.

    5. Again, there was no noticeable difference in performance/feel between the 0-4-1 and 04 recoil spring assemblies. Both proved 100% reliable.

    6. I just got off the phone with an old timer at Glock customer service who I've dealt with before. He's a great guy who will remain nameless here per his request. He was VERY interested in my findings and thanked me repeatedly for sharing this all with him. I expressed to him that whatever changes GLOCK has made to its extractors in the past year or so should be looked at as a very likely culprit to the issues that some folks are having with their 9mm Gen4 pistols. I told him about the obvious physical differences between the newer extractors and the older ones and how Lone Wolf's design mirrors the older Glock version in fit, finish and function. He was very interested in this and suggested he would contact Lone Wolf for a comparison. I hope his findings will raise some eyebrows in Austria.

    7. Since my experiment didn't even come close to properly following the scientific method, I can't positively say why the pistol performed so well today compared to last week. It may have simply needed some break-in, either the extractor, the recoil spring, or both. Perhaps the steel wool rub down did actually make a bit of a difference. That all said, the Lone Wolf extractor performed the best and it will stay in my gun along with the 0-4-1 spring. The 04 spring will go in my spare parts box.

    8. Finally, I am more than happy with my Gen4 G19. Through 400 rounds of various types/grains, today it performed as a Glock should, especially with the Lone Wolf extractor! I suspect an older Glock extractor would have given equally excellent results, but I didn't think to take one along with me. I would not hesitate to recommend a Gen4 G19 to anyone who's on the fence. If yours is not totally dependable, try an older extractor or one from Lone Wolf and I'm certain you'll be good to go.

    -- Also, thanks to HotRoderX (and others) for their posts regarding the extractor differences and the Lone Wolf part. I found them very helpful. THIS is how problems get resolved. I believe consumers are a vital link in helping companies improve their products and resolve problems as they arise as nothing is ever truly perfect. Collaboration and problem solving are always more helpful than just whining and belly-aching.
     
  2. HotRoderX

    HotRoderX Gen4 BETATester

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    Very exciting news I cant wait to get my LWD extractor. It sounds like the extractors are at fault for at least part of the Gen 4 problems. I make sure to post my results once it comes in and any pictures I can get comparing the two.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011

  3. gorenut

    gorenut

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    Thanks for the report. I'm actually waiting for my Lone Wolf extractor to come in. I ordered a new one after I had some brass burned me right below my eye (hopped in between my face and glasses from the top). My Glock is a Gen 3 though.. however I did notice the extractor had the dip as you and other members noted when I detail-stripped my slide. I'm not sure if the guy I bought it from changed the extractor or something. I know for a fact its not me limpwristing either.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  4. skyboss_4evr

    skyboss_4evr

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    Gorenut, I've read that newer Gen 3's are coming with this newer extractor (with the dip).
     
  5. HotRoderX

    HotRoderX Gen4 BETATester

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    Wear a hat what I started doing when I first had the brass to the face. I worried about a piece of hot brass getting between my face and glasses and burning one of my eyes. Just a temp solution into your extractor comes in.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  6. lookin4my1stglock

    lookin4my1stglock

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    Super super job.....extremely informative....true not perfect scientific method, but awesome trouble "shooting" (pun intended)....Thanks for some great information that I can and will use if ever needed or questions by anyone I know
     
  7. HotRoderX

    HotRoderX Gen4 BETATester

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    From what I read online it seems Glock switched to the new MIM extractors around the same time the first Glock Generation 4 hit the market. So the extractor has been out a while. I think thats why getting a replacement Glock Extractor from someone like Midwayusa or a Glock armor does not help.
     
  8. voyager4520

    voyager4520

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    Thank you! :yourock: :rock: :dancingbanana:

    I never expected the steel wool part, but the results were marvelous.
     
  9. gorenut

    gorenut

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    Ahh, ok, that makes sense. I've read from certain accounts of the same, but wasn't sure.

    Yup, already planning on it if my LW extractor doesn't come in before the weekend. On a side note.. I have kind of cool scar/scab under my eye now.. now to make up a cool story to match it other than letting people know my gun doesn't respect me.

    Yea, which is why after I did a lot of searching, I came to the conclusion of getting a Lone Wolf one.

    Thanks for all the input guys. Definitely think threads like these are better than majority out there where people are just moaning about problems.

    I'll keep my results posted as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  10. fullhouse

    fullhouse

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    Thanks!
    Your post will benefit many. .. :goodpost:
     
  11. greyeyezz

    greyeyezz

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    Amazing how a bunch of dummies on an internet forum can out trouble shoot Glock techs. :shocked:
     
  12. quicksand

    quicksand

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    I don't find it amazing, what I find amazing is the arrogance of engineers and how slow they are to make changes based on suggestions from end users.

    Skyboss is obviously no dummie, and thanks to his tinkering I am a little closer to being willing to get a Gen 4 17.

    Thank you.
     
  13. mastrbloata

    mastrbloata

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    My God.....what is going on with Glock?:dunno:
     
  14. HotRoderX

    HotRoderX Gen4 BETATester

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    Don't be surprised I seen this before with a computer company. They thought they where to big to fail so they just sweep the issue under the rug and brought out a new product. Will that company's sales ended up tanking and they slipped from number 1 to number 2 which is a huge deal.
     
  15. Fedor

    Fedor

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    So... you have to buy aftermarket parts to make the Gen4 work properly?
    What a joke !! :rofl:
     
  16. gorenut

    gorenut

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    I'm sure someone on top of the corporate section made a decision that'll cut costs. Things probably won't change until they see this cost-cutting measure being detrimental to their overall profit. Otherwise, I see no reason why they would change a formula that they already know is functioning at a very high percentage. It also doesn't help that when ever someone brings up ejection issues, especially with Glocks.. people will quickly blame it on ammo or limp-wristing.

    Of course all just speculation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  17. IMightBeWrong

    IMightBeWrong Straw Dog

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    Might just have to grab a new extractor myself. You're speaking of the LCI 9mm extractor from their site, correct?
     
  18. G23Gen4TX

    G23Gen4TX

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    I've been saying the problem is the extracor for months now. I guess it's time to order one and see if it works since the replacement I got from Glock was even worse in my G17 Gen4 than the original extractor.

    I went shooting this past weekend and not only the gun shot brass to the face, had brass dribbling and stove pipes. It also shot brass to the LEFT.
     
  19. High Altitude

    High Altitude

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    Very few CEOs in manufacturing look to the processes in order to change the bottom line. Instead, they look to cut costs which is a sure thing on paper and directly changes the bottom line, but has a major downside due to almost always lowering quality/reputation/workforce moral etc..... In the long run the negatives out way any savings from cutting costs.
     
  20. HotRoderX

    HotRoderX Gen4 BETATester

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    I agree as long as you have people that don't give a un bias answer it just hurts the cause. Some people on here are to quick to blame everything but the pistol. I am kinda surprised certain people had not blamed Glock Kabooms on the alignment of the planets causing unusual pressure spikes :whistling:.