Gen 4 Issues: An Objective Look

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by CA_DUDE, Oct 9, 2010.

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  1. CA_DUDE

    CA_DUDE Dude here.

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    I'm gonna soon be in the market for a 9MM and my first instinct was to go with a Gen 4 19. I've had three other Gen 3's and loved them (sold them foolishly), I just always wished the grip frame was a bit smaller. So I'm interested on actual (not perceived) issues with the Gen 4's. I'm aware of the spring issues, and that was resolved. But what are the other issues? I know some are just dyed in the wool anti-Gen 4, but why? Ergonomics aside, what are the issues? I'd really like to get an objective thread going with actual performance issues or parts breakage. I didn't think it was that big of a difference between the Gen 3 and 4. Mechanically the spring is the biggest difference.

    To listen in on the other threads you'd think Glock was half way down the crapper. But I haven't seen anything other than the spring growing pains, and unsubstantiated MIM rumors that lead me to believe there is any real issues. I could be wrong though, that's why I'm asking for help. Please keep it factual, I know there are a lot of opinions about them, but that's for another thread. I know a lot of guys will say get a 3rd, but I really like the smaller frame.

    Hopefully we can clear things up and maybe help other prospective new buyers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  2. boomhower

    boomhower

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    Once they got the spring issue sorted they are GTG from what I have seen.
     

  3. curriek

    curriek

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    Go ahead and get what you want. It's very unlikely that you will have problems with a Gen 4. If you do end up having problems, Glock will take care of you to sort out the issue. I have two Gen 4 Glocks (19 and 22). Only about 500rds through each, but no problems with either. I had a Gen 3 19 and a Gen 3 32 that had some stovepipe issues awhile back, but I have never questioned the reliability of all Gen 3 guns because of it. I think the number of people that have zero problems with the Gen 4 far outnumber the people that do have issues with them.
     
  4. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    My G4 19 is perfect so far and I love the grip - both the size and the texture. That alone makes it worthwhile over the G3 for me.
     
  5. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    There are a few folks that have experienced problems with the Gen4 G19. They are the same folks that might have experienced the same problems with brand new Gen3 G19's.

    I've been shooting 9mm Glocks since December 1996. The first 200 rounds I fire through any new 9mm or old 9mm with a new recoil spring assembly has always been Blazer 124-gr or American Eagle 124-gr ammo. After that, the Glocks will run on anything. My 147-gr competition reloads have never, ever functioned with any new 9mm Glock or new recoil spring assembly, but function 100% after that 200 round break in period. The above applied to my Gen2 G17, Gen2 G17L, Gen2 G19, G26, Gen3 G17, Gen3 G34, Gen4 G17 and Gen4 G19--all purchased new--and my used Gen1 G17L and Gen1 G17.

    Now if you want problems right out of the box, use Federal Champion 115-gr FMJ ammo, the most substandard ammo available. Since the earliest days, the Glock Armorer's Manual has always stated a minimum velocity of 1,180fps for 115-gr ammo. Champion is only 1,125fps.

    I've got 1,000 rounds on my Gen4 G19 and it is a tack driver with 100% reliability. Earlier this week, I shot a 10-shot 1-hole group at 7 yards left handed. I am using AmeriGlo GH-431 sights.

    As a side note, a person bought a brand new Springfield XL last week and it would not function on their Walmart/Champion ammo, but ran fine on the MagTech ammo sold at the range.
     
  6. kurt1305

    kurt1305

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    Couple of thousand rounds through my G19 G4, and only one failure to fire. It wasn't a light primer strike, so I blame the ammo (WWB). Otherwise, it has been flawless. I like the smaller grip, otherwise I would have just kept the G3.
     
  7. Apprentice

    Apprentice

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    Good luck with that whole objective thing.

    My Gen 4 G19 has 2K rds through it. 90% of that 115 gr fmj - mostly WWB and Blazer. No stoppages.

    1. Smaller SF grip.
    2. improved mag release
    3. improved recoil spring system IMO - why not? I've seen about 9K rds fired in this system; all 9mm with no problems. My targets and timer say this is an improvement.
    4. trigger spring - details somewhere on GT but new angle for greater durability of the spring, leads to even sharper reset
    5. trigger bar - details somewhere on GT but I think most of the smartest Glock guys think it does serve some purpose; reliability related.
    7. RTF3 or whatever this is actually called.
    6. Larger grip is really nice for large hands.

    These are not total game changers. They are incremental improvements in my opinion to the already outstanding Gen 3 design.

    Dead certain reliability is the trump card. I say Gen 4's got it, cause I've seen it.
     
  8. jamaicanj

    jamaicanj

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    I picked up a Gen4 G17 today so I'll keep you posted.
     
  9. Cowboy33

    Cowboy33

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    In the first 200 rounds so far, all cheap Federal or WWB, I have had four issues. I would classify two as failing to feed, as the previous case was ejected but the next jammed when feeding. I also had two double feeds, both with WWB. All four issues were in the first 50ish rounds, and it functioned cleanly from that point on. I would recommend the Gen 4 as mentioned due to grip size and texture. I feel confident that any issues will disappear with break-in. I have still never had an issue in function in any Glock with quality ammo in 9, 40, or 45.
     
  10. fin1

    fin1

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    1,040 rounds through my gen4 G19 with only 2 stove pipes. Both with 115gr rounds. No issues with 124gr or 147gr rounds.
     
  11. JBP55

    JBP55

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    8,700 flawless rounds fired from my G4 G17 with many different shooters.
     
  12. deeHKman

    deeHKman "It Is Written"

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    I read about the gen4 glocks alot so in july i went to one of my dealers/glock armorers and held some gen3's and when he let me feel the gen4 G19 i bought it ....shot alot of rounds but when new i ran several mags of +9+ and then WWB and never had a issue...liked it so much i went and bought another...all the dealers/armorers in my area have not had a single issue with the pistol's..only problem is they cannot keep them in stock...
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  13. CA_DUDE

    CA_DUDE Dude here.

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    Thanks for the replies so far guys. It's pretty much what I suspected. I know nothing is perfect, but try and change something a little bit and some folks get rabid. Makes me feel more confident about getting a Gen 4.
     
  14. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    The only thing permanent is life is change, and it is human nature to resist it.
     
  15. marh415

    marh415

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    I have a 17 Gen 4 with 500 trouble free rounds though it, and 90% of the ammo has been 115gr. WWB from Walmart, the other 10% has been Federal 115gr. also from Walmart. I believe Glock will have another winner!!!
     
  16. JPP

    JPP

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    +1
    300 rounds of my soft-recoil reloads through my G19 G4, only 1 FTF. Banged the back of the slide, round fired.
     
  17. kjdoski

    kjdoski

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    I have a Gen4 G19 that I purchased back in August. Before putting it into duty use, I decided to subject it to the "2,000 round challenge" - 2,000 rounds fired with no cleaning or lubrication (except for the initial out of the box clean and relube, of course).

    I had a couple issues of difficult disassembly and reassembly, thanks to the new recoil spring (and, no, I'm not at all new to the Glock platform). After the first couple hundred round range session, everything appeared to be worn in, and I haven't had any further issues.

    At around the 1500 round mark, I started having "dead trigger" issues - the trigger would fail to reset after the slide reciprocated, either loading from slide lock or in the middle of a firing string. I would say I probably had 5 or 6 instances of this in a 200 round range session.

    On return to the office, I detail stripped and cleaned the pistol. When I did this, I noticed what appeared to be unusual frame wear, shown in these photos:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I also noticed some unusual finish wear around the recoil spring cut in the muzzle:

    [​IMG]

    I forwarded those photos to Glock Inc, and was told that the frame wear was "normal" and that the missing polymer was simply the surface layer of polymer over "voids" in the molding process, and that they were acceptable. I suspect that some of that polymer flaked back into my trigger mechanism and jammed it up just enough to affect the trigger reset. WRT the finish loss on the muzzle, I was told that was "cosmetic" and acceptable, by their standards.

    Once the trigger reset was resolved, I took the pistol to Midsouth for a week long pistol/rifle course, and fired, conservatively, 3,000 rounds through it, with no maintenance, lubrication, and no malfunctions of any kind.

    So, BLUF, my sample of one pistol had several issues, at least one of which I would have expected Glock to ask to have the pistol back for an evaluation (the frame "voids"). Like I said, I haven't had a single issue with the pistol since the "dead trigger" cluster, but I'm not sure I really trust it, either. Right now, it's sitting as a backup to my 3rd Gen G19 that's resumed its place as my primary carry gun.

    Other observations:
    -The Gen4 trigger feels "heavier" in pull weight, and has a "harder" break than the earlier generation triggers. I've confirmed this in side-by-side shooting, both my own and other guys' on my team.
    -The Gen4 G19 doesn't exhibit any appreciable change in accuracy or recoil, again by my and my team mates' subjective experiences
    -The Gen4 grip does feel quite a bit better in MY hand, and the pistol without any back strap "points" more naturally by a considerable margin than my older G19s
    -The Gen4 grip texture is noticeably more "tacky" than the old texture, but it's not abusive by any stretch
    -The Gen4 magazine release is a big improvement over the old standard mag release, but still not as nice, IMHO as the Vickers Tactical replacement for the 3rd Gen guns

    Regards,

    Kevin
     
  18. deeHKman

    deeHKman "It Is Written"

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    Whether you are processing plastic or metal injection the Quality Tech has Blueprints/drawings which point out where voids are acceptable and where voids would shut the machine down and scrap all affected material. Then a quarantine would be placed on any suspected product to be 100% inspected.

    I have been in Reliability Testing, Lab and Quality Control for many years.
    I have inspected In areas from Mainframes to BMW's and some company's with military contracts. I hear complaints in MIM parts well many of the Bombs used in the Military are using Triggers of the MIM nature and other's of which i need to stop before i open myself a problem of which i do not Ever want in my Life. Kevin you probably know of what and why it best i go no further. Hey you did some great Reliability Testing on the Glock 19..wow if we could have access to my lab and equipment i bet you would have a Blast
    Good Post, I sure do like my G19 gen4's but my CZ-P01 sure is a
    Winner in its own right, David
     
  19. Bensmiata

    Bensmiata

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    No problems with my G17 here, over 1300 through it
     
  20. turrican

    turrican

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    Here's the facts.
    It comes with 3 mags. Fucntions flawlessly. Very accurate. Slightly smaller grip.

    Anything else is opinion but I think it feels great im my hand. Texture works good. I would trust my life to it and I carry it every day.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010